CHURCHILL BACKING GAINING IN LONDON (7/17/39)

Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz | 7/17/39

[Homer_J_Simpson]

If you would like to be added to or deleted from the Real Time +/- 70 Years ping list, send me a freepmail. You can also search for these articles by the keyword realtime, going back to the first one on January 27, 2008. These articles are posted on the 70th anniversary of their original publication date. See my profile for additional information.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

”The country as a whole is united in its resolve to retain Mr. Chamberlain and the national government. A large section of opinion would like to see Mr. Churchill in that government, too. They see those two men as pillars of the State.”

Also on this post – “Japan Threatens Raid into Siberia.”

[C19fan]

I noticed the fighting between Russia and Japan. This would escalate to an undeclared war between the two countries where Zhukov annihilated the Japanese at Ulan Bator. Probably this played a major role in the Japanese not declaring war on Russia when Hitler invaded Russia.

[CougarGA7]

I agree with that assessment. The Japanese really were faced with a choice to acquire the resources they needed. They could:

1. Invade eastern Russia for the oil fields and raw materials there.

2. Target the resources, including Dutch oil resources in the southern islands from Sumatra to New Guinea.

The black eye they received from Zhukov helped steer that decision which took a declaration of war on Russia in 1940 off the table for them since they knew at that point that they would have to face the United States. There was also an internal struggle going on between the Japanese Army and Navy at the time which also influenced this decision.

Hey Homer, I got my books for my second semester. 20 of the darn things with the shortest being 400 pages. How the heck I’m going to read that much in 16 weeks is beyond me. But included was West Point’s atlas of the Pacific theater. A lot of the maps in it are the same ones that are on the Military Channel’s website, but there are a bunch of additional ones. I’ll have to scan some of these in as we go through those events. That and I might see if I can find the European theater equivalent.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

I noticed the fighting between Russia and Japan. This would escalate to an undeclared war between the two countries where Zhukov annihilated the Japanese at Ulan Bator. Probably this played a major role in the Japanese not declaring war on Russia when Hitler invaded Russia.

The major part of that battle took place in the last few days of August. Alas for our purposes there was a nearly complete news blackout, at least as far as the NY Times was concerned. That and the growing crisis over Poland combined to push the story completely out of the paper. Maybe we can provide our own coverage delayed by 70 years. It is called (Hi, Cougar!) a major turning point in World War II, even though it happened before war had been declared.

[investigateworld]

If the old gray cells are correct, the IJN want the "Southern Option", taking the Oil field of the Dutch East Indies. The Army wanted the "Western Option, taking Russia's resources. I don't believe any Japanese planners ever viewed taking the US.

But I could be wrong.

[CougarGA7]

One of the sticking points when the IJN and the army were going back in forth on which option to take was that an attack on the Dutch East Indies would inevitably draw the U.S. into conflict with them. The Japanese navy knew even at that point that they would need to plan for a way to get the U.S. Navy knocked out so they would be able to maintain their gains.

[CougarGA7]

I will definitely try to provide extra detail on that conflict as we get into it. One of the classes I’m taking this semester starting August 3rd is MILH552 World War II in the Pacific which should hopefully cover that conflict too.

[investigateworld]

Thanks, that's the way I seem to recall why the IJN went after Pearl Harbor.

One of my coming projects in the winter months is the find out what happened to all the gold that Japan Inc. stole from the occupied territories. One of the 'verboten subjects' amongst the academics I knew.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

I don't believe any Japanese planners ever viewed taking the US.

I believe there was some discussion of landing troops in Hawaii in conjunction with the attack on the fleet, but Yamamoto never seriously entertained the idea so it didn't go anywhere.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

But included was West Point’s atlas of the Pacific theater. A lot of the maps in it are the same ones that are on the Military Channel’s website, but there are a bunch of additional ones. I’ll have to scan some of these in as we go through those events. That and I might see if I can find the European theater equivalent.

The top map on my profile is from the West Point European theatre atlas. The second one is from Asia and the Pacific. Where does one find maps at militarychannel.com?

[dfwgator]

“Winston is Back!”

[GreenLanternCorps]

I'm thinking that the anti-Tuberculosis conference that El Salvador was going to boycott got canceled...

[Homer_J_Simpson]

I'm thinking that the anti-Tuberculosis conference that El Salvador was going to boycott got canceled...

Why do you say that? Curing TB is such an important cause. And Berlin is lovely in September.

[GreenLanternCorps]

“Berlin is lovely in September.”

So why is the Wehrmacht going camping in Poland? They get a group discount or something?

:)

[CougarGA7]

Sounds fascinating. Why are you on this quest. I’m working on my Masters in Military History with a concentration in World War II so I’d be interested in what you find and may be able to help some too.

[CougarGA7]

Where does one find maps at militarychannel.com?

Why you just ask your friendly neighborhood Cougar....hmm, that can be taken a couple ways couldn't it. But I digress...

European Theater

Pacific Theater

[investigateworld]

Why?

I retired from the cops and robbers biz. Always interested in various crimes.

During my previous career, I even worked a bank robbery that occurred three years before I was born. (Reichbank on WilhelmStrasse, Berlin, May, 1945)

I guess by putting history into a cops and robbers format - makes it interesting for me. The more I delve into history, the more mountains of bullsh*t I find.

And I will keep you in mind as I know you will do the same for me.

[CougarGA7]

Sounds like fun. Don’t hesitate to hit me up for information. I may not have it, but you never know.

As far as the mountains of bullsh*t. Welcome to historical research. I’m currently writing 3 research papers. I have mounds of raw data, but I have to scrutinize it carefully so that I don’t get information in one of the papers that is just total crap.

There’s so much revisionist garbage out there it can be difficult to delineate the best reliable facts (you really cannot achieve absolute truth).

[investigateworld]

One of the mountains of b/s I even find here on FR is "we bombed Germany and Japan to the stone age, we had no competition for our economy."

The fact is, according to the various post war 'Bombing Effectiveness Surveys' we only destroy less than 20% of Germany's industrial production.

Then add in the fact that Germany stopped food rationing long before the British did.

So who was the victors?