Posted on 06/14/2009 12:19:46 PM PDT by kenth
PRAGUE — The Oklahoma Highway Patrol released a dashboard camera video late Friday that was recorded during an altercation between a patrol trooper and an emergency medical technician. Featured Gallery
The patrol said the move is contrary to what the agency normally does but decided to release the video because of the high level of public interest and the fact that the release "would not affect the administrative review” of the patrol’s investigation of the incident, according to a statement released late Friday.
"We’ve been well aware of the fact that this incident has drawn enormous attention, but made the decision to protect the integrity of the investigation, any and all relevant evidence, as well as the rights of the department employees during the course of the investigation as required by law,” said patrol spokesman Capt. Chris West.
The move came after the patrol received sharp criticism by the attorney representing the technician, who questioned the patrol’s initial decision not to release the video.
The patrol has completed its internal investigation into the actions of trooper Daniel Martin, who has been placed on administrative leave with pay, West said. The investigation is now under review.
Martin, a patrolman with two years experience, has been cleared of criminal wrongdoing by Okfuskee County District Attorney Max Cook. He also said he would not file charges against Creek Nation EMT Maurice White Jr., who is the person involved in the altercation with Martin.
Richard O’Carroll, White’s attorney, had earlier criticized the patrol for not releasing the video.
"Why wouldn’t they release the video?” said O’Carroll of Tulsa.
West initially defended his agency’s decision to withhold the dashboard video, adding that Martin is entitled to his "due process” as a state employee. Martin claims the ambulance driver, Paul Franks, rolled down his window and made an obscene gesture at him. Franks denies making such a gesture.
"This investigation is to determine whether any disciplinary actions should be taken or not,” West said. "We’re trying to take the high road here.
One video of the incident has reached the public domain. The video was taken by the ambulance patient’s son on his cell phone camera and posted on YouTube.
Martin is shown choking White outside the ambulance with another patrolman, Brian Iker, urging everyone to remain calm.
"Thank God there was a camera, or else my client would have been prosecuted by now,” O’Carroll said.
Some people have what it takes to hold their own without cursing and foot stomping and some people don't. Just as well that you bow out now before you degenerate any further.
FR is a discussion forum, so your obstinate, curse ridden proclamations won't be misses by anyone.
“...But at least I’m not a unilateral cop hater. “
Me either. Been there done that in my time. My father, and my great grandfather uncles and cousins.
No. What he did was extremely stupid, and illegal. The officer definitely wasn't being overly reasonable to begin with, but by getting out of the vehicle during a traffic stop and arguing with the officer he escalated the incident and broke the law. The officer's big mistake was not agreeing to follow them to the hospital and then arresting him.
The officer also escalated the incident when he had several opportunities to step back, calm down, and reassess the situation. Officers are taught to maintain control of the situation in any stop. In many situations it can be dangerous for them to lose control. That is why it is illegal to just ignore the lawful order of a police officer like the EMT did.
However, it wasn't necessary to arrest him right there and then with the patient in the ambulance. Of course the EMT didn't even mention the patient until after the officer told him he was going to arrest him, so it's hard to say the EMT was thinking about the patient first either.
This ended up being a battle of two egos. Both were in the wrong, but the officer had the law on his side, and the EMT's actions amount to serious felonies if the prosecutor decided to file the charges.
I don't know if the driver flipped off the officer or not. It doesn't really matter all that much. He could say easily enough that he didn't pull off because of the car off the road up ahead, and despite what the officer said he did come up on the ambulance awfully quickly. Flipping off an officer or making rude comments is really, really stupid, but not criminal. The driver did also seem to be the one with a reasonable attitude during the stop, and tried to deescalate the situation rather than make it worse.
The right attitude when getting pulled over is always to be polite. You can argue politely, but never, never, never disobey the lawful order of a police officer. Take the ticket, then fight the ticket and file a complaint after the fact.
If the EMT would have just kept his mouth shut, or politely mentioned that they did have a patient they needed to get to the hospital and then kept quiet, this would have likely been a quick stop. The driver had enough sense to not pick a fight with a police officer during a traffic stop.
The officer obviously has serious anger issues and needs to either get those under tight control, or find a different job. He should be getting himself an unpaid suspension out of this. There was no imminent danger. There was no reason he couldn't regain control of the situation by deescalating it rather than escalating it.
Lots of blame to go around.
where the heck was the officer going with RED lights and SIRENS blaring? it was important enough to use them, but he just drops interest because someone gave him the finger? that officer was in loony land all the way along....yes, it was dumb of the medic to get out of the back and leave his patient unattended...but a mistake not quite up to the level of the officers.
and why did he just let the white driver go and hone in on the black medic? that really caught my attention.
Are you sticking with your claim that there was no patient in the ambulance?
Always use at least two fingers when waving to a cop.
He's in charge of the ambulance. He knows the condition fo the patient. He is the man ultimately responsible. He's also a free man. Are you going to argue that the OHP officer was in real danger of being attacked by the EMTs?
The LEO ignored his legal authority and his legal obligations.
The officer definitely wasn't being overly reasonable to begin with, but by getting out of the vehicle during a traffic stop and arguing with the officer he escalated the incident and broke the law. The officer's big mistake was not agreeing to follow them to the hospital and then arresting him.
His big mistake was going into law enforcement. As stated the Lead EMT was in charge of the ambulance. Any LEO who was actually concerned with public safety would have definitely wanted to include him in the discussion. To act like the LEO was being threatened by his the EMT coming out of the ambulance is a joke.
However, it wasn't necessary to arrest him right there and then with the patient in the ambulance. Of course the EMT didn't even mention the patient until after the officer told him he was going to arrest him, so it's hard to say the EMT was thinking about the patient first either.
The patient was brought up at the very beginning.
Your assertion that we are all obligated to just shut up and take it doesn't sit well with free people. The LEO was lucky that he didn't get the tar knocked out of him by the family of the patient. He was an ego maniac, a jerk and a discredit to the trust put in him.
You can kowtow to petty tyrants if you wish, but many of don't cotton to it.
As you are responding to post #8 of what is now an over 200 post thread, I recommend that you read through the tread before regurgitating what has already been said.
He was also the one that was legally in the right.
The ambulance was doing a non-emergency patient transport. They were not running with lights and siren. The EMT didn't even mention the existence of the patient until the officer told him he was going to arrest him.
This was a traffic stop. If you are a passenger in a vehicle and you jump out of the car and start arguing with the officer, expect to be arrested. You sure don't try and fight with an officer when he tries placing you under arrest. Plain arrogant stupidity on the part of the EMT.
The officer exhibited plenty of arrogant stupidity of his own. Officers are human and do lose their tempers sometimes. If he though he was flipped off by the driver it isn't surprising that he was pissed off when he came up to the car. The actions of the EMT stoked that anger, and the EMT was in the wrong.
However, it is the officer's responsibility to keep his anger under control and seek to deescalate the situation when possible, and it was unquestionably possible in this situation.
He should have told the driver to go ahead to the hospital, and then it would have been perfectly reasonable to arrest the EMT there.
The officer deserves to be suspended without pay. If this is an isolated issue, he probably won't be fired because his actions showed a break down in judgment even though he what he did was within the law.
The EMT should have been cited for disobeying the lawful order of a police officer and resisting arrest. His actions were unlawful and did not help the situation.
An abundance of arrogance and stupidity on both their parts, but more so in the case of the EMT.
As for no charges being filed... I don't have much respect for prosecutors who refuse to file charges when someone picks a fight with a police officer, but has public support because they were effective at making people think the officer shouldn't have arrested them.
It does people no favors to make them think that they can pick and choose when they will obey police officers giving orders, and in this case the EMT was given multiple warnings that he was going to be arrested and he just kept on going. He should have been arrested and charged.
>> 80% of the troopers are limited government conservatives. <<
I’m not sure if highway troopers are very different from local cops, but I’ve lived in six metro areas in the northeast, the deep south, and halfway in between. And everywhere I go, you can always count on the police to be running ads to make the gun-grabbing liberal out to be tough on crime. They may tend towards tough defense, etc., but come election time, they’re concerns are the union, grabbing guns, and piling on the regulations.
If you listen in the audio from the cruiser video he says he was responding to help the county officers. Apparently whatever the emergency was, he got called off before he got out of his car.
where the heck was the officer going with RED lights and SIRENS blaring? it was important enough to use them, but he just drops interest because someone gave him the finger?
Actually the law is very clear on who is in charge in a traffic stop and who must follow who's orders. He's an EMT. He had to have had incident command training and know how to deal with issues between police and EMTs. If he didn't like how the officer was handling it, he should have gone back in the ambulance like he was told and gotten on the radio.
The officer let his anger get the best of him. He was arrogant. He also had the law on his side. The EMT was every bit as arrogant, and decided he could boss a police officer around during a traffic stop.
and why did he just let the white driver go and hone in on the black medic? that really caught my attention.
Maybe because the EMT kept trying to get interpose himself, while the driver showed the most common sense of the three of them. The EMT was arrested because the driver failed to yield to an emergency vehicle, he was arrested because he failed to obey the lawful order of a police officer to get back in the vehicle and let the officer talk to the driver.
The fact that the EMT is in charge of the vehicle was irrelevant to the alleged traffic violation. The person responsible for traffic violations is the driver.
Personally I don't think he should have pulled over the ambulance. I do think he came up on them awfully quickly despite what he said. Maybe he had some adrenalin going because of whatever the original call was. That might distort time a bit an make him feel like the ambulance should have had time to pull over and explain why he was so hyped up. That's not an excuse, but might help explain the situation a bit better.
However, it also doesn't appear that the officer knew there was a patient in the ambulance until the EMT told him, which was after things had gotten to the point where to officer said he was going to arrest him. Maybe the EMT assumed the officer knew there was a patient in the ambulance. That might help explain why he felt the need to take charge of the situation.
I didn't see the slightest evidence of racism being a factor.
Arrogance and foolishness were definitely a factor on both their parts, but the officers actions followed the EMT getting out of the car and flatly refusing to obey him during a traffic stop. That will likely get most anyone arrested.
I am an EMT and I do drive ambulances......this is a crock of bull.....as someone pointed out to me the medic says he saw a woman in the front seat of the vehicle and thought it was a medical emergency. turns out his wife was cruising with him...very professional.
True. However, the ambulance was not traveling with the lights or siren on. The EMT didn't even mention the patient until well into the argument.
If he was worried about the patient, as an EMT he knows how the incident command system works. Obey the lawful orders of the officer and return to the ambulance, and then get on the radio or a cell phone and reach higher up. Or maybe he could have calmly tried mentioning the patient right from the start rather than being belligerent? Instead of helping things get resolved quickly, he made matters worse and drug things out.
He's also a free man.
We are all free men, but we still live in a society with laws. Our laws clearly state that you can't ignore the lawful orders of a police officer during a traffic stop. You can make an objection, but you still have to comply unless that order is placing someone in danger or is unlawful.
If you are going to argue that the order placed the patient in danger then why didn't the EMT tell the officer he was concerned about the patient right away? Why wasn't the ambulance rushing to the hospital with lights an siren? Why didn't the EMT return to his patient instead of perusing an argument?
Are you going to argue that the OHP officer was in real danger of being attacked by the EMTs?
No. Because of that the officer should have been trying to get the situation under control by desalinating it, rather than by escalating it to a physical confrontation. Either he had the time to calm the situation down, or he should have let the ambulance continue on to the hospital and dealt with it after the patient was delivered. That was his big mistake. However, his mistake showed poor judgment. The EMT broke the law.
We do not get to decide if an officer should be ordering us to stay in the car or not during a traffic stop. We don't get to argue our point and ignore him if he doesn't agree with us. You had better be very, very sure that the officer's actions are unlawful or dangerous before refusing, because the officer's orders will be considered reasonable unless shown otherwise. You get the benefit of innocence until proven guilty as to if you ignored the order, but saying it was an unlawful order is an affirmative defense.
Unless there is an EXTREMELY good reason, you should always obey the officer's orders during a stop, and file a complaint after the fact if you feel it is necessary. The courts have little sympathy for people who feel they have a right to simply ignore officers when they disagree with them. Otherwise what we have is anarchy.
The LEO ignored his legal authority and his legal obligations.
How? Arguing about a traffic stop is not part of his legal authority as an EMT. The officer did not prevent him from treating his patient, nor was there any indication of an urgent need for the patient to receive medical care.
Remember that police officers have people tell them they "have not right" to arrest them or tell them what to do on a pretty regular basis. In most cases it isn't true, but some people think they are entitled to do whatever they want, so rational arguments don't do much good.
His big mistake was going into law enforcement. As stated the Lead EMT was in charge of the ambulance. Any LEO who was actually concerned with public safety would have definitely wanted to include him in the discussion.
The discussion was about the driver's driving, and the EMT could have listened to the discussion from the back. He had absolutely no authority to try to force the officer to go through him. The driver is the one who is responsible for his driving, not the EMT. That is how our traffic laws work.
The patient was brought up at the very beginning.
I don't remember hearing anything about the EMT wanting to head to the hospital for the good of the patient until the officer said he was arresting him. That was near the beginning of things getting really ugly, but not at the beginning of the confrontation. The EMT had already justified his arrest by that point.
Haven't had a chance to view the video but if the ambulance was driving hot without lights or sirens, that's a real no no.
The validity of the charge and attitude of the LEO has a great deal to do with what level of cooperation he gets. If I get pulled over by an LEO and he starts screaming at me and acting insane about my driving, when I've been going the speed limit and obeying the law, I'm getting my guard up. No way that I'm going to allow an insane lunatic suffering a breakdown to cuff me.
Your point is that if everyone had just kowtowed to the OHP officer, no matter how outrageous and unprofessional, then there wouldn't have been a problem. I say you don't understand what the real problem was, if you can say that.
We should have LEOs that we can all be proud of, and citizens should not be called on to cower in the face of petty tyranny.
You equate "hating the police" with wanting the police to act in a civilized manner, obey the law and put public safety above their own egos. Such an argument is non sequitor.
The empowerment of some citizens to enforce the law comes with very strict limits on power. It most certainly does not entitle them to belittle their fellow citizens whenever they need an ego pump.
Most LEOs are great folks, doing a good job carrying out a difficult task. Like all professions, LE also has its share of egotistical jerks, and of these some use their badge to play bully. This is not surprising, but in a Constitutional Republic we have the ability as citizens to call these individuals out for their actions and demand redress. That is a wonderful thing.
What is unfortunate is when these bad players are defended as beyond reproach, and the citizens who defend their rights are slandered as "cop haters". It is the defense of these individuals not there actions that really destroys respect for law enforcement.
I've put it on the line to help LEOs more than once, but I've also been treated extremely rudely by LEOs and I've seen LEOs braking the law and refusing to enforce the law. I do not want to live in a country where the actions of LEOs are above reproach by common citizens.
I follow ambulances all the time with patients in them (because we both are headed to the ER) without sirens. That doesn't mean the patient isn't harmed by an undue delay.
This LEO should have taken the ambulance number and had his supervisor call the EMT’s supervisor. I guarantee that this OHP officer would not have pulled anyone over for giving me the bird or taking a whopping 5 seconds to yield to someone else.
Selective enforcement of the law is worse than no enforcement. Selective enforcement for personal reasons is disgusting.
“The empowerment of some citizens to enforce the law comes with very strict limits on power. It most certainly does not entitle them to belittle their fellow citizens whenever they need an ego pump.”
If you listen closely starting at 14:00 minutes, top right screen count, Martin is calling for backup. Check out what he says referring to the Paramedic. See if you can hear what I think I may have heard him say.
Just watched it again. The OHP officer is competely out of control. His, “I’m not going to take this s#!t” statement says it all. Its all about him and its all about his ego.
He becomes completely unhinged when he is told that he came up behind the ambulance quickly (we know he was going 100mph) and doubles up on the screaming and cursing.
One of the first things the Lead EMT states when he determines just what the LEO wants is that there is a patient onboard. The LEO could care less.
The LEO needed a good hard fist to the nose. The EMTs were smart enough and professional enough not to oblige him.
Watch the video again then. It is one of the very first things he says after he determines why it is that this deranged OHP officer has pulled the over. Turn up the volume and listen to just how calm the EMTs were and just how out of control this trooper was.
Also go back to the beginning and look at the actual incident. The ambulance had about 5-7 seconds from when it first appeared to when the OHP car was on its bumper. At that point it goes around a car on the shoulder and immediately starts slowing and pulling over. An ambulance is very heavy, that is not a pave shoulder, nor is it a wide shoulder. In fact, the ambulance got over just as fast as was possible. When the OHP car went around the ambulance was on the shoulder.
On the other hand the OHP showed up to his scene and did nothing. What exactly requires a code 3, but no back up?
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