Posted on 05/22/2009 9:54:15 AM PDT by Paul46360
Watch a radio host get waterboarded.
Enter WATER in the box.
So....I take it that your answer is that you would give Obama the right to right to waterboard at will people he deems “terrorists” or “suspected terrorists,” right?
Wow....you're a sweatheart, aren't you. I love you too btw.
Again, do, or you don't you, want to give Obama the power to "torture" people at will who he deems "terrorists?" If the answer is yes, please note that some folks around Obama regard you as a terrorist simply because you patronize this site. A simple yes or no to this question would be sufficient.
Seems to me he's already claiming more rights than he was ever given as President, so the best bet is, as always, buy more guns, lay in more ammunition.
Pain is our friend.
I am with you on this one. I think it is well established that that waterboarding is indeed torture. More severe than other forms? Perhaps not but it is torture nonetheless.
The fact that a Christian nation such as the United States has perpetrated this is in my mind, unconscionable. Even if we were not a Christian nation, we are at least supposed to be a civilized nation. Civilized societies cannot, by definition, torture.
We are an open and free society and that makes us vulnerable to terrorism, that is a fact and that comes with freedoms. Just like “shall issue” concealed carry states run the risk of one in a million having a gun legally and then that one going nuts with it and killing many. The risk is small but it is real and we weigh and allow that risk because of our love of the 2nd amendment and the RIGHT to carry concealed. I personally would not give up that right for a 100% guarantee of safety.
Terrorism can be combatted and prevented more efficiently and more effectively with brutality, tyranny, oppression....and yes, torture. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Saddam Hussein, Tito, Stalin, Bashar al Assad, etc. have proven that.
But we are a civilized country and more importantly IMO, a CHRISTIAN nation. That forces us to use the slower and perhaps less efficacious methods of good old fashion police work.
The use of the 24 hour ticking time bomb argument to me as justification for a Christian nation to torture is on par with the Reichstag fire. Use fear to win the ability to treat humans inhumanely.
And yes, that includes treating murdering, sociopathic terrorists humanely even though they would never reciprocate that sentiment.
We have laws and morals hard coded into our constitution and law books across the country to treat serial killers with civility because we are a Christian and civilized nation. We are even commanded by these ideals to use gentle, painless execution methods on savages that have committed unspeakable horrors on multiple women and children in our country. Thus our hands are forced by those same moral underpinnings to treat all, even the worst of humanity including terrorists, with the same civility.
I would like to say I am sorry for breaking with most conservatives and people like Dick Cheney on this but I am not sorry. I am a Christian first and a conservative second and therefore can never condone torture even on someone as despicable and vile as Hitler himself.
I respect your opinion based upon your Christian faith. Would your faith also prohibit you from killing the enemy of this country in battle?
Torture is cutting heads of formerly alive Americans.
“Again, why are so many otherwise sensible conservatives so willing to give this incredible power to Obama and his ilk? “
0bama will take what he wants. It is not a question about ‘giving’ it to him.
Mancow is Libertarian not conservative.
You live in a fantasy world.
“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” -Ronald Reagan
true
too bad there are so many people in the conservative movement who do not stand by that.
Your flippant comment about the grassy knoll is absurd, given that we know KSM coughed up actionable information.
No one is suggesting the gov’t be given the power to do this to American citizens, or even someone considered an EPW under Geneva. Your argument is completely disingenuous.
However assuming it produces good intel. sometimes, there is a much more serious flaw. Most of the intel. a suspect gives up when tortured is false. These leads still have to be investigated, wasting tax dollars but more importantly man power and time. This is very dangerous for National Security!!
The difference between you and me is that you trust Obama to use this power without abusing it and I don’t.
“I respect your opinion based upon your Christian faith. Would your faith also prohibit you from killing the enemy of this country in battle?”
The biggest enemies of this country are within the country. If invaded, I would do what my Irish grandparents did and move to another land. I would not take up arms to defend a country that has murdered 49 million children under the protection of law since 1973.
“You live in a fantasy world.”
Great response...very easy, very lazy. Make a statement without repudiating my arguements with fact or compelling counter-argument.
Here, I will play your style of dialectic:
You are a poopie head!
Not to worry, me and mine, who come from Irish stock as well, will defend your women and children while you 'evacuate'.
You didn't deserve a different response.
The rest of us recognize that we live in a hard and difficult world where our enemies are duplicitous, have no "better angels" to appeal to, and are not at all interested in responding with Christian kindness. No offense, but we have no problem recognizing our enemies and doing whatever is necessary to neutralize or eliminate them.
Now go away. Your fantasy world whining self-righteousness bores me. If I wanted to treat myself to that insipid slop I'd dial in Obama. He wallows in it and dishes it even more and better than you do.
“Not to worry, me and mine, who come from Irish stock as well, will defend your women and children while you ‘evacuate’.”
Excellent, it’s nice to know someone has our back.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.