Posted on 05/09/2009 12:47:21 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
Yesterday I happened upon a post by a fellow FReeper. In retrospect, I am sorry for responding rudely to their post - and I hope they happen upon this apology.
The post was presenting their heartfelt opinion that American industry and our system itself must be allowed to come apart so that something better can replace it.
It was a Rand-ian position. The system is becoming oppressive, therefore we must weaken it.
Couple of dozen whoppers on this thread alone.
You have some nerve calling on others to “prove” something. LOL
We don't have a free trade agreement with China.
Reagan's Fault™.
You are of the mistaken impression that your opinion, if stated forcefully in a number of ways, magically becomes fact by its mere existence.
And it's amusing (I wouldn't be here otherwise), to watch you tapdance between your two positions: 1. Reagan repudiated his idea of NAFTA after subsequent negotiations added environmental provisions, and 2. NAFTA was never Reagan's idea in the first place.
You falsely asserted that the NAFTA agreement negotiated by Bill Clinton and algore was the same as the agreement envisioned by Ronald Reagan. I proved that to be false with quotes and cites.
You just don't like being exposed.
I know that you want to blame the NAFTA agreement negotiated by Bill Clinton and algore on Ronald Reagan, but you've failed to make your case. Repeatedly.
I have quotes, I have cites, you have assertions. Look up "projection" in the dictionary.
You can cheer on Obama to negotiate one.
I will shed light on your ignorance. Please read and learn.
At his heart, Reagan was about personal and economic freedom. That includes free trade. In fact, look at the multitude of links between Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman; Reagan not only was influenced by Friedman, but actually appointed him to a role in his administration, and re-appointed Paul Volcker as Fed chair (Volcker being a Friedman economist).
There is NO DOUBT that Milton Friedman - the man who's economic theories were the foundation for Reagan - was an unabashed supporter of Free Trade and NAFTA. If Reagan was so anti-free-trade, why use the economics of Friedman? Why keep Volcker around?
Now that I’ve answered your question and challenge, you answer one of mine:
Which is more American: the Honda built in Ohio, or the Ford built in Canada? The BMW built in Georgia, or the Chevy built in Mexico?
I have yet to have a single one of you isolationists answer that question, or even attempt to acknowledge it. Go ahead, please!
You didn’t provide any quotes from either Reagan’s version or Clinton’s version.
Fail.
One of the greatest contributions the United States can make to the world is to promote freedom as the key to economic growth. A creative, competitive America is the answer to a changing world, not trade wars that would close doors, create greater barriers, and destroy millions of jobs. We should always remember: Protectionism is destructionism. America's jobs, America's growth, America's future depend on trade—trade that is free, open, and fair.This year, we have it within our power to take a major step toward a growing global economy and an expanding cycle of prosperity that reaches to all the free nations of this Earth. I'm speaking of the historic free trade agreement negotiated between our country and Canada. And I can also tell you that we're determined to expand this concept, south as well as north. Next month I will be traveling to Mexico, where trade matters will be of foremost concern. And over the next several months, our Congress and the Canadian Parliament can make the start of such a North American accord a reality. Our goal must be a day when the free flow of trade, from the tip of Tierra del Fuego to the Arctic Circle, unites the people of the Western Hemisphere in a bond of mutually beneficial exchange, when all borders become what the U.S.-Canadian border so long has been: a meeting place rather than a dividing line.
Bzzzzt. False.
Which is more American: the Honda built in Ohio, or the Ford built in Canada?
Explain the relevance of your "question."
[crickets]
Reagan wasn't an algore style greenie, lie as you will.
You just can't prove that Reagan repudiated his vision of a North American free trade agreement. (North America includes Mexico, if you've never seen a map). It is your central contention on this thread, and why you started yowling about the environment to create a distraction.
Have you even read a book about Reagan? Any book (even by a hostile author)? Ever wonder why you can't find anyone who supports your contention?
Who said Reagan was a greenie? We are coming very close to the time you leave the thread in a huff. You're almost out of bullets.
Some older conservatives might remember Putnam.
He warned everyone in the Southern California area about NAFTA and GATT and all the other free trade schemes that would only benefit a few insider fat cats.
Think Putnam was wrong?
Look at the economic landscape today...Going down in flames over deep water.
I remember thinking to myself, that doesn't sound right, but before I found out the real story they were long gone and hunting their next bourgeois capitalist.
Putnam, Putnam [drumming fingers on chin] . . . is he the political economist who discovered the business cycle?
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