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Is globalism and "free trade" what's destroying the GOP? (America-first vanity)

Posted on 05/09/2009 12:47:21 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network

Yesterday I happened upon a post by a fellow FReeper. In retrospect, I am sorry for responding rudely to their post - and I hope they happen upon this apology.

The post was presenting their heartfelt opinion that American industry and our system itself must be allowed to come apart so that something better can replace it.

It was a Rand-ian position. The system is becoming oppressive, therefore we must weaken it.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Society
KEYWORDS: bush; clinton; freetrade; globalism; gop; outsourcing; readdailykos; reagan; reaganfetishists; reaganwas4freetrade; sellout; socialismnow; votenader2012; voteunionyes; waaaaah; welcomedulurkers; workersworldunite
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To: Mojave
In all of the voluminous bodies of work regarding Ronald Reagan, I have yet to come across anything that suggests he regretted the creation of a free trade zone between Canada, Mexico, and the United States. And if someone has, I'd like to see it.

I must admit, the notion that we should ignore his public pronouncements about the value of economic liberty and getting the government off of our backs because his ideas came to fruition before he left office is a real hoot.

41 posted on 05/09/2009 2:46:14 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I buy American. What irritates me is that you want me to pay more for the American I buy.


42 posted on 05/09/2009 2:47:10 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Aquabird

Yeah I pay lots of attention to noobtards who say how stupid Michael Reagan is.


43 posted on 05/09/2009 2:47:11 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Of course I want you to pay more. After all, it says so right on that straw man you’re holding up.

Oh wait. You’re not holding it up! Who is that?

That’s an illegally low-paid undocumented laborer, you have holding it. Poor guy.

Looks like you don’t feed him.


44 posted on 05/09/2009 2:52:40 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (Got Tea?)
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To: cripplecreek
You should probably let him know you're insulting him, if he's a n00b.

As for Michael Reagan and Harley Davidson, so what? All presidents impose tariffs on one product or another, at one time or another. That doesn't make them advocates of Smoot-Hawley II.

45 posted on 05/09/2009 2:54:41 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

How is your desire to raise my taxes a “strawman?” Seriously . . . you need to come up with a better response than “strawman.” In your language, does “strawman” mean “I can’t think of an intelligent response, so I’ll try to bluff my way out of it?”


46 posted on 05/09/2009 2:57:16 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

OK how about this approach, since you seem stuck.

China’s market is not open.

China’s market is in fact quite closed - to everything China is capable of making. Only those things which they cannot (yet) make and exclude also.

America’s market is open.

Which country, owes a trillion dollars, to which?

Which country, is growing and has a massive world-class manufacturing base?

Hint: Better start learning to speak Mandarin.


47 posted on 05/09/2009 3:00:11 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (Got Tea?)
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To: 1rudeboy
That doesn't make them advocates of Smoot-Hawley II.

Maybe you should remember that next time you scream protectionism at anyone who agrees with Reagan's methods.
48 posted on 05/09/2009 3:01:52 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: cripplecreek
There you go again (to recycle a phrase). You mean Bush's, Clinton's, Bush's, Reagan's, Carter's, et al., methods.
49 posted on 05/09/2009 3:04:11 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: cripplecreek

Nice post.


50 posted on 05/09/2009 3:07:51 PM PDT by chasio649
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To: 1rudeboy
In all of the voluminous bodies of work regarding Ronald Reagan, I have yet to come across anything that suggests he regretted the creation of a free trade zone between Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

He didn't sign it.

What did he say about the version of NAFTA finalized under Clinton?

[crickets]

51 posted on 05/09/2009 3:12:14 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: 1rudeboy
As for Michael Reagan and Harley Davidson, so what?

RINOs are allergic to facts.

52 posted on 05/09/2009 3:13:22 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave
What did he say about the version of NAFTA finalized under Clinton?

That's the argument you are constructing: you are arguing that we ignore the weight of historical evidence concerning Reagan's commitment to free markets and assume that he did not favor the result of a policy he created, promoted, and worked to establish. In other words, everything he worked for should be discounted because of who ultimately implemented it.

"What did he say" about Clinton's "version?" Tell us. Proceed with your argument.

[crickets]

53 posted on 05/09/2009 3:17:59 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Mojave
RINOs are allergic to facts.

That's the sound of you running for the tall grass.

54 posted on 05/09/2009 3:19:19 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
assume that he did not favor the result of a policy he created

Really? Was the version that Reagan supported full of the environmental crap that Clinton inserted?

Sounds like more RINO lies.

55 posted on 05/09/2009 3:22:28 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave

And what environmental crap would that be? Once you get a handle on the specifics, it should only take you a small amount of time to research who inserted what and when.


56 posted on 05/09/2009 3:24:34 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: chasio649

Reagan saw America as more than just an economy and the people are more than a commodity.


57 posted on 05/09/2009 3:25:34 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: cripplecreek
That's correct. People are only taxpayers.
/protectionist
58 posted on 05/09/2009 3:28:12 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: cripplecreek

So Reagan foresaw and approved of the multiple environmental side agreements to NAFTA subsequently created by Al Gore and his Environmental Protection Commission at the behest of Bill Clinton?

RINOs are fascinating.


59 posted on 05/09/2009 3:29:07 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave
Protectionists aren't fascinating at all, they're simply hypocrites. Tomorrow they'll be arguing that we cannot compete with Mexican labor because of Mexico's lax environmental laws.

I know someone here on FR was making that argument to me just last week.

60 posted on 05/09/2009 3:31:29 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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