Posted on 04/21/2009 11:04:12 PM PDT by incredulous joe
I'm a 5th grade catechist at my church and I have a class of a dozen children. Almost all of them are products of the public chool system; one is a special needs child and another is Monteressori schooled.
During yesterday's class we encountered Corrie ten Boom, via our discussion oriented text books. The subject of the the lesson was "Forgiveness".
As I waded into the discussion one of my students asked me what the Holocaust was. I sat back for a moment then asked one of the other students to contribute an answer.
I was a little shocked when none of them raised their hand. In fact, I thought that they were just being shy about the topic and I flat out asked them if they knew what the Holocaust was?
Nothing.
I gave a bit of a sideways look at my assistant to see if she thought this was odd? We exchanged raised eyebrows.
I then asked the kids if they had ever heard of The Nazis, Maximillian Kolbe, (whom I actually remember having discussed earlier in the year) or Anne Frank, Pope John Paul II and his role in Poland during WWII. I then asked the children if they had ever encountered a book called "Number the Stars" or maybe they had been to the Holocaust Museum, but maybe they did not immeadiately remember it??
I got blank stares and one student mentioning that he thought the Nazis were the Germans.
I have to admit I was absolutely dumbstruck!!
My own children attend a private Christian school and my son was familiar with Ann Frank when he was in 3rd grade. Currently, my daughter is in 2nd grade. I doubt that she knows anything about the Holocaust, which I think is fine for that age.
Am I being a little harsh?
Shouldn't 11 year old American children know what the the Holocaust is all about or is it just too much?
Speaking of unspeakable visuals, I will never forget the Auschwitz scenes from “War and Remembrance.” I’m still amazed that the producers were able to portray the graphic scenes in a made-for-TV mini-series, and frankly it went against the grain of the rest of the series.
Saved this to read.
My father and grandparents lived through the Holocaust, and though I deplore the educational standards of the American youth today, I for one am happy that those children lived until 11 without HAVING to know about such evils and ugliness.
I know my late relatives, the victims of such, are agreeing with me from heaven. (As would my healthy and happy Dad.)
I think the Holocaust is best taught after age 12.
I don’t think most know what the Holocaust is at that age and if I recall I didn’t back then either. Or at least not from school. I knew all about WWII from my parents, family, etc. My Dad was a WWII Vet. But it wasn’t something learned in school (Catholic school for me). Not then. And my parents didn’t give me all the gory details. Not at that age.
It was 7th or 8th grade history when we started learning about WWII. But not in depth until high school. Our public district and Catholic school teach WWII and the Holocaust in 7th grade. An entire Unit on the Holocaust. It’s not discussed again until high school. Per the Curriculum but of course it comes up.
I had a 3rd grade class that asked a lot of questions about the Holocaust. One of the kids was Jewish and knew about it, in detail. It was tough, trying to limit or censor what I said. I don’t usually teach 3rd grade, not my age group, lol. But a friend requested me, short term sub job.
I have to say the most difficult question came from one student who asked if Santa Clause was real and if I believed in him. I about fell off the chair.
Here, my kids (Catholic k-8 and public high school) learn it in some context starting in probably 5th grade. My 5th grader asked me about it not too long ago. It came up in class and she asked if it was true that Jews were rounded up and killed just because they were Jewish. I explained it as best I could for her to understand. It’s been discussed in our house prior to that but she’s 11. Most of it probably went over her head until she asked.
It’s not a unit until 7th grade. It’s sorta detailed then. The Diary of Anne Frank is read in 5th or 6th grade but again it isn’t detailed or discussed in detail at that grade level.
I think his shock is normal since he and many of us learned about this stuff in our homes. Quite a few people don’t have this history in their lives, homes. It’s not built up over the years and the first time they’re hearing/learning about it is in school or CCD.
I disagree. These kids are 10 and 11 yrs old. They don’t need to know the gory details they can’t comprehend.
I saw the abortion film in Catholic High School. I wouldn’t have been ready for it in grade or middle school. I don’t think they even show it now in Catholic High Schools which is a damn shame imo.
He’s teaching 5th grade CCD. He should be teaching the Catechism. And any questions that come up, to the best of his ability in keeping with Catholic Dogma and Doctrine. If his CCD is anything like it is here, it’s one hour per week. Not a whole lot of time to cover every issue.
Suprising.
What happened to the Jews and others in WWII at the hand of the AXIS powers has been drilled into folks heads for several generations now and Hollywood is always good for varying Shoah themed flicks every few years.
Pretty odd what you saw.
My 8 year old sure knows all about it but then i have a lot of books and he likes war.
Getting the parents to take them to Mass is hard enough.
5th grade is young for in depth Holocaust discussion.
I had a kid once, insisted that abortion was a choice and his mom said this and his mom said that. I’m just his CCD teacher. WTH am I supposed to say to this kid? So I said, well your mom is wrong according to the Catholic Church and that’s what you’re here to learn, the teachings of the Catholic Church. Tell your Mom to call me if she has a problem with that. This was a 3rd grader. I didn’t like telling an 8-9 yr old that his Mom was wrong. Give me the older kids any day.
what you alluded to is part of my ambivalence of this.
i think because of Hollywood for various obvious reasons...politics and religious demographics that the Holocaust while obviously a very real and horrible thing always gets top billing over any other human tragedy in history while in fact collectivism with Lenin, Stalin, Beria and Mao and Pol Pot and Fidel at the helm costs more lives.
and yet collectivist excesses hardly ever get a nod.....Killing Fields, Doctor Ziavago..sort of, some Gulag flicks and whanot
Sonnenschein actually covers both with a narrative of a rich aristocratic Jewish family in Budapest thru Nazis and Communists
Slavery gets a lot of evil exposure but only slavery practices by whites.
Crusades likewise treated as more bad white Christian people stuff.
Abuse of Indians has sorta died off in popularity as has Afrikaaners as the perennial bogeyman.
Biggest killer in history:
Feminism by a huge huge margin.
The kinder gentler gang has so far killed nearly a billion unborn. A figure all the nasty men since Neanderthals died out could only dream of.
Our perception of truths today is so fake and self delusional
Our public high school district is far better than any of the Catholic and Private high schools. Probably better than any schooling, even homeschooling. It’s rigorous and fortunately my kids are in the honors and AP classes. But, it’s all relative and a matter of choice. I don’t rely on the Catholic School or public school to teach my kids about our Faith or about our values. That’s learned at home. The Catholic k-8 schooling only reinforces what we teach at home, and not all that well. This works for us that’s why we do it. And there comes a time when a kid is responsible and accountable for her education.
I’m surprised by the level of education here, in our public and Catholic high schools. They’re learning a whole lot more than I did in school. It’s far more rigorous today, at least in this area.
Ha! Yep. I understand what your cousin is saying. This isn’t new. The Abortion and homo debate in CCD classes. It’s been going on here in NJ for over 15 yrs.
Seems the parents don’t want their kids to know the details of abortion, and certainly not see an abortion. Don’t even get me started on the homo issue.
I wish all these kids could see that abortion film I saw in high school.
Our Catholic grade school does sex ed in 5th grade. This is my 4th time going through it. It’s called Family Life and part of Religion Class. So my youngest is in it now. They separate the boys and girls.
Our public high school has sex ed in senior year. Yeah, senior year. My senior is going through it now in Health Class. They learned about STDs before, but not the sex part, lol. It was in the class about Diseases. She says it’s 5th grade all over again. Although, they separated the boys and girls to show the girls how to do a breast exam and the boys how to do a testicular exam.
Don’t know where you live but it’s part of the Curriculum here and has been for decades.
True. Hitler targeted the Jews and wanted them eliminated, sorta like most of the Middle East now, but they weren’t the only ones targeted by Hitler. Many millions, as you stated, were also exterminated. And just like what’s happening now with the ME/Islam, the Jews are the focal point for them but certainly not the end game. Saturday then Sunday (the Jews then the Christians).
I think I’ll have to see “Sunshine”.
But not in detail right? This is a class of 5th graders, 10 or 11 yr olds. They probably don’t know the term “Holocaust”
Or much about US and European History since it isn’t taught much at this grade level. And if they don’t have parents or grandparents or greatgrandparents, to tell them this stuff, oral history, how else would they know until it’s taught in school?
I regularly sub for a class that is majority Indian (India). It’s fascinating. Really bright kids. I’m learning a lot about the history of India. But they don’t know all that much about US and European History. Their parents don’t know about it either.
a cast of real actors....neat scenery
poignant of course.....the camp scene is rough
as bad as the scene in Savior where the Croat monster is killing Serb refugees with a huge mallet
the director is hard on the commies too, he himself was brutalized by them in the late 50s
helluva movie I thought, Fiennes portrayal as a famous aristocratic royalist who finds his own country turning on him and never believes it till too late is really tough to watch...
it's a the story of a family through monarch upheaval, National Socialism and then Stalin.
Excellent post! Couldn’t have said it any better.
hard with math
hard with writing
lefty, somewhat dyslexic
He knows precisely what happened under the Nazis...camps, torture, ovens.
He also knows that similar things have happened elsewhere and will again.
We live where much blood was shed once here (Shy's Hill) and he knows that in these troubled times that it might happen again and possibly on his watch.
He's proud of where he comes from and his kinfolks that died for our country and the South.
That's how I raise them. Kids like he will be one day are where most of our combat seeking troops come from.
I raise my children to be realists. That is cornerstone of conservatism.
But yes, in public school they are brainwashed with Black History Month, Earth Day, Non Christian religion, Women's Studies etc.
My kids know it for what it is.
They did a report on famous blacks last month...all lefty no gooders or victim class enablers....no Booker T, Clarence or Thomas Sowell.
He did Clarence...and got an A from his old fart lib teacher anyhow.
This is what we deal with. Stuff my own parents 40 years ago never had thrown at them,
Hey btw....I gotta crash...my 2 year old just wandered down the long hallway with blankey, bottle and pacy in hand...I let him sleep with us sometimes...he is the last baring immaculate conception..lol
you know...he might not know the term Holocaust...but he sure knows Nazis adn Hitler and Luftwaffe and even SS...he has asked me why they had betetr uniforms than we did?...lol
I sorta miss those days, lol, but glad they’re over ;) It’s conflicting. My youngest is 11 and sometimes she still sleeps with us.
You have a rich history and I’m happy to see you teaching it to your kids. Doing the same here.
I raise my kids the same. Realism is Conservatism.
Heh. don’t forget Gay Historian of the Day. Black Historian is old news. It’s now Gay Historian of the Day. The kids were like, WTH, they’re famous because they’re homos? Then there were comments about why they don’t have white hetero male historian of the day, lol. I tell ya, kids ain’t stupid. The PA announcements stopped eventually, since all the kids were mocking them. That’s in the public high school. Don’t even get me started on the Catholic School Earth day today, lol.
However, the reason why I answered the way I did was because these kids Joe is teaching have already endured 10-11 years worth of media propaganda (have you closely watched kids programs that come out nowadays?), 5-6 years worth of intense school-based propaganda, and, considering that 50+ percent of Catholics are libtards, likely 10-11 years worth of parents parroting the DNC, environmental wacko, pro-abortion line that they hear on the tube and read in the tabloids (or maybe broadsheets...). And chances are the four-five CCD teachers they had before Joe were probably libtards. And chances are the CCD series that they use in the parish ain't the Baltimore Catechism (and probably ain't even based on the 1997 Catechism). And it's entirely possible (probable) that the CCD teachers the kids will have after this year with Joe will likely be libtards, as well. We're talking about the Archdiocese of Baltimore here, not the Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska.
In other words, Joe may be the only voice of orthodoxy and conservatism these kids hear throughout their entire childhood.
I don't know Joe's parish, but I DO know Merlin (Hon) (having had "blessings" of having lived here for the past 10 years), thus I KNOW that I'm not far off the mark.
If Joe can somehow plant a seed in these kids: to get them to actually think (i.e., question the socialist and pantheistic brainwashing they are receiving), he will do these kids a HUGE favor that will benefit them for the rest of their lives.
And, yes, Joe doesn't have the time, granted. But if he can touch on the subjects -- then he might be able to plant the seed. At least for a couple of his students.
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