[DoughtyOne]

Within some paramters, I agree with your comments.  In the movies the scoundrel is played off as being a misfit their whole lives.  You don't see them attending college and knuckling down to obtain a degree.

What you see is them stealing, pulling all sorts of shady deals, and then taking over to lead a group with no self-discipline or education to make that possible.

Here's the part you left out of your comments.

Dwight D. Eisenhower - U.S. Military Academy - West Point
Ulyssis S. Grant - U.S. Military Academny - West Point
George Patton - U.S. Military Academy, a master's degree in international affairs from George Washington University and the Senior Managers in Government Program at Harvard University.
Bull Halsey - The U.S. Naval Academy - Also studied at the Naval War College in the mid 1930s
Curtis E. Lemay - Ohio State University where he studied civil engineering and was a member of the National Society of Pershing Rifles
Bernard Montgomery - Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst
Nathan Bedford Forest III - U.S. Military Academy - West Point

[longtermmemmory]

All very true, but you have to make it through the educational process to earn the right to be a rebel.

I wonder how they are going to handle the Koubayashi Maru test that cannon has kirk manipulating into a win in a no win test.

[redangus]

My point was that many great military leaders found their home during times of war after years of being ignored or worst because of their inability or unwillingness to play politics and kiss butt. I am well aware of most of the educational backgrounds that you pointed out. Of course you didn't mention that in the case of Grant he was near the bottom of his class and that Patton was considered a loose cannon that had to be controlled until it was discovered he could beat the Wehrmacht at their own game. Bull Halsey was impetuous and rash. The Japanese planned on that at Midway, but unlucky for them he was laid up at the time. Later in the war he almost lost the Philippines because of that same rashness. Montgomery was an egotistical megalomaniac unliked by almost everyone he dealt with including Churchill. NBF was known as a violent man, a business speculator and a Mississippi gambler who started with nothing and made a fortune prior to the civil war. None of this in anyway diminishes their accomplishments on the battlefield, but they were not angels, and many had troubles outside of their areas of expertise, i.e. being innovative commanders, leading men in battle and more often than not winning.

I try not to draw to many connections between real life and fantasy, but I think JT Kirk would fit right in with most of these men on poker night.