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It Was A Good Run For Our Republic - Here is an idea below that may give us one last chance.
n/a | 2/13/09 | A Navy Vet

Posted on 02/14/2009 12:20:34 AM PST by A Navy Vet

The US Constitution is toast with this "porkulus bill" shoved down our throats in secrecy, we are now pretty much guaranteed that our Republic is gone. It's been coming for some time, as many of us have been warning. The Utopians in Congress and the Obama Branch have done so much harm to our Republic in these first few weeks they have been in power it is now obvious that we are losing the political battle for our Nation.

History has shown that "power corrupts absolutely". However, that very axiom has also shown, once realized, that it can be the catalyst for change. Maybe, just maybe, with their absolute power they won't see my suggestion below coming at them...just give me a moment to explain.

THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT:

Those who would still fight, what recourse do you have?
Voting? How's that worked out for us so far without term-limits which would take a Constitutional Amendment?
Marches on DC? Right, like enough conservatives can get together to make a difference.
Civil disobedience? As if everyday working stiffs will risk being arrested for barging into the Congressional chambers and committees. No-load liberals spray-paint the Capitol steps and are willing to be dragged off in handcuffs - they see it as badge of honor. Joe-Six-Pac-SoccorMom wouldn't. We have families to contend with.
Rebellion by militia? Not even a consideration. The first rebels would be made an "example" by the local SWAT or National Guard units.

So you say, what then?. Well, I may have a possible answer: Here it is...

Support existing organizations and/or create a new organization with massive cash infusions to build bullet-proof LAWSUITS against the onslaught of unConstitutional legislation. Take every single oppressive unConstitutional law and regulation and executive order to COURT! Base every effort on not only the literal translation of the US Constitution, but the very INTENT of those who wrote the document! There is a plethora of correspondence between the Founding Fathers to PROVE their intent in the final creation of our Constitution.

That is our last hope. Yes, some lawsuits may not make it past the local federal courts or the appellate courts; some will. But then the USSC may accept some and not accept to review others and kick them back down to the appellates for what ever technical reason. That is why the lawsuits would have to be once again, written in bullet-proof language that is highly researched and proves the INTENT of our Founding Fathers as mentioned above.

We recently had a somewhat of a good ruling from the USSC regarding the individual right to own weapons. It wasn't perfect and should have expanded in many areas, but it was a small win. We can do the same with other obvious unConstitutional legislation.

What say you folks? Any interest in researching those orgs who have been the most successful and supporting them with dollars? Or maybe we need an entirely new legal org that is not caught up in DC politics. Personally, I believe we need a new dedicated highly professional legal entity to forward such lawsuits.

This is possibly our last and best hope for our Republic. A Constitutional Law Union (CLU), for the lack of a better name could be our ONLY hope in fighting for the last of our Republic. It could be based in part on the various Constitutional organizations that currently exist.

It would take money; high-level organizers; dedicated lawyers; high-visibility pundits; dedicated and capable volunteers, and again, a huge amount of money. But, I believe this to be doable.

Think about it. Think about how the ACLU wins so many lawsuits against our heritage and traditions. If they can do it, why can't we??? We actually have a sacred document and other historical writings on our side. THIS CONCEPT IS VIABLE. Others have layed the ground work that we can take advantage of.


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KEYWORDS: constitution; legal
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To: A Navy Vet; Gondring

Not so.

Privately educate or home school your kids. There is no way I’d subject my children to the liberal indoctrination camps. There is no way to undo 40+ hours of socialist/PC indoctrination with a few hours a night and weekends.


101 posted on 02/14/2009 7:32:22 AM PST by NucSubs ( Cognitive dissonance: Conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between beliefs and actions)
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To: cookiedough
I think it is time for the Republican Party to run a huge, 4-year, public service advertising campaign to educate the public, using short, simple words to distill major concepts into understandable bits.

And I nominate Zo of Machosauce Productions to be one of the "first wave" spokesmen.

He will be listened to by many who would not listen to us beyond the first half of our first sentence.

102 posted on 02/14/2009 7:36:25 AM PST by George Smiley (They're not drinking the Kool-Aid any more. Now they're eating it straight out of the packet.)
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To: AvOrdVet

Here’s what I was saying. Hypothetically, if there were a successful physical revolt, those who had fought could not prevail against the propaganda machines of the rich wanna-be dictators. And some of the men and women with big media resources have some really nasty ideas about how to rule a country—far worse than what we’re already seeing.

As for “Nellie,” I was referring to a hip hop video, where he swiped a credit card in a prostitute character’s rear end.

In other words, sponsors of so-called news and big entertainment would win the propaganda fight for leaders and form of government after any physical fight. Why? Because the people of our Nation are spoiled rotten and have no will to fight foreign enemies. There’s no way that they would fight any perceived domestic enemy, and anyone trying to convince them to do so would be quickly punished as an example to any others wanting to do the same.


103 posted on 02/14/2009 7:54:35 AM PST by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: JSteff
One solution is to provide a work around that we offer as educational meetings about the constitution.

One thing I've been thinking about along these lines is forming neighborhood or community book clubs, where like-mindeds can gather to read and discuss titles pertaining to individual freedom. The best way to get people to THINK is to pry them away from the Hollyweird leftist-controlled "entertainment" of the television.

The beginnings of my anti-collectivism, pro-individual-freedom reading list:
The 5000 Year Leap (Skousen)
Atlas Shrugged (Rand)
The Fountainhead (Rand)
Anthem (Rand)
Free to Choose (Friedman)
The Sovereign Individual (Davidson/Rees-Mogg)
The Road to Serfdom (Hayek)

Under the "know your enemies" category I might undertake Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and Rahm Emanuel's The Plan, as well as the timeless strategery culled from Sun Tzu's The Art of War, as this is most certainly a war for the very soul of this (once?) great nation.

It's great to network on the internet, to formulate ideas and plans of action. But it may be even more valuable to establish networks of close proximity, people you know you can trust and be able to align with at a moment's notice. The socialization aspect of getting together in person to discuss what is happening in our country, where we're headed, and what we can do with and for each other to protect ourselves and our families (and our freedoms!) will be a great asset.

Good thread, by the way.

104 posted on 02/14/2009 8:02:52 AM PST by shezza (A government that gives you everything you want can take away everything you have.)
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To: A Navy Vet

marker


105 posted on 02/14/2009 8:12:02 AM PST by JDoutrider
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To: AvOrdVet

We could bring political change with legal and nonviolent means, if we (especially us Baby Boomers) weren’t so spoiled and selfish. Since the early 1990s, we’ve seen a few small group leaders who advocated violence against the government, and most of them were neo-Nazis of one kind or another. Every one of them hid their intentions, until they had gathered a few others to defame by association. Others were west-coast, liberaltarian politicians and importers, who were friendly with foreign communists and fascists and even defamed some Orthodox Jewish men by deceiving them, displaying their names and broadcasting the neo-Nazi speech later.

So no thanks. I don’t want to be any part of any seditious effort by Vietnam-era spooks or former US owners of manufacturing plants in communist/fascist foreign countries.


106 posted on 02/14/2009 8:24:33 AM PST by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: usma1992

Welcome to Free Republic.
By the way, did you know that you can control the content, arrangement, quantity, and color of what you see on your main FR page?

Just click on the words “Configure Sidebar” found at the bottom right hand side of the page. This takes you to ‘My Page Layout’ where you can choose what you want to see.


107 posted on 02/14/2009 9:17:36 AM PST by deks (My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.)
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To: A Navy Vet

I know they’re small but I believe they do good work. I contribute when I can. They do a lot of work against environazis for people who can’t afford to hire legal counsel.

Maybe we could get them in the limelight and get them more money. Like I said, they run on donations.


108 posted on 02/14/2009 9:57:46 AM PST by abigailsmybaby (Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake.)
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To: A Navy Vet

There’s very positive thread here called: Freepers, UP!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185575/posts


109 posted on 02/14/2009 10:10:06 AM PST by deks (My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.)
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To: nathanbedford
The Republican Party itself is fighting for its very a survival. It might very well be pushed into a regional party consisting of a few mountain states and parts (not even the whole of) the old Confederacy. It has appointed an attractive black man as Chairman of the Republican National Committee probably at least partly because a black man can speak out against Obama and hopefully avoid charges of racism. I regard that factor to be a point in his favor. But my conception of an effective leader for the national Republican party is someone with the remorseless drive of a Rahm Emmanuel.

I see no evidence whatsoever that Michael Steele possesses that drive. Further, by default, the chairman has become the spokesman of the party which has no other national figure. That role means he must be able to rouse the troops with his charisma. I see absolutely no evidence that Michael Steele possesses the power of speech, Ronald Reagan's style, to mobilize the vast middle of America. Has he been speaking out against porkculus?

Finally, a party which is undisciplined cannot come back from the wilderness. Despite the surprising unanimity displayed by House Republicans in fighting this damned porkculus bill, I see no reason to believe that Michael Steele or anyone else can impose rigorous discipline on the party, and certainly not on Rinos in the Senate. Hence I conclude that the Republican Party as an institution will be of limited value, especially in the early stages of mounting a recovery.

I think you give the GOP too much credit, nathanbedford. As far as I'm concerned, the GOP is through as a viable political entity. It is dysfunctional from top to bottom. It's command climate is in the toilet. In military vernacular, it has become woefully combat ineffective through poor leadership and a flawed application of enemy liberal tactics designed to merely retain the comfortable command tents for the power elite rather than leading to seek the precious high ground of conservatism.

The GOP has entered into a left wheeling death march of rallying around a series of weak generals more in tune with their adversary's allegiance and enjoying the trappings of the privileged few than pursuing the main objective and attending to the welfare of the conservative troops they purportedly lead. Oh, it occasionally marches to the right in unison (like this latest episode with Porkulus) when the yells and cries from its massed formation wails in unison, but this is a transient maneuver to quell the ranks. The party tug and pull is consistently tilting leftward, away from the conservative objective.

The GOP should be pulled from the line, it's colors cased, disbanded as an organization and those battle hardened conservatives remaining with a raging fire in their belly used to serve as the nucleus to form new ranks around a new banner.

Those poseur GOP conservatives in positions of power and influence who have consistently cavorted with the left at the expense of the movement they falsely represent should be publicly culled out, have their epelettes and buttons cut off, their sabers broken across the knee and unceremoniously frog marched to be dumped at the enemy picket line as a warning to others to be leading the ranks of a new organization who may have similar intent.

I also agree that using litigation as a means to fend off rising socialism is helpful, but it alone will not get the job done. This is the tactic of fighting a delaying action and merely trades space for time. Certainly useful, but not effective as a central strategy using a myriad of tactical moves in synchronization to bring about a real victory.

This war we are engaged in is much more than a tactical skirmish between two political adversaries. The fact is, we are in a culture war with global underpinnings and the political spectrum of it is merely the front line trace at the FEBA. All of the points you eloquently raise in your post concerning our education, philanthropic, economic and religious institutions bears this out.

A large share of our effort has to be conducted in depth behind the lines, infiltrating those institutions with conservative thought, discourse and deed, using liberals' agenda and examples of their flawed ways against them, to cause disaffections in the rank and file of their youth by breaking their regeneration cycle and growing young conservatives from the ground up. This will be the long war we will have to accept instead of continuing to engage in a stalemated trench warfare between parties that increasingly look and act more alike than they differ.

Conservatives need an over arching strategy in depth, a campaign plan that ties operational plans at the national, state and local levels, each nested under the one above it for continuity and clarity of intent and end state. Tactics, techniques and procedures are important too, but must meet the intent of the over arching strategy when developing them. But most of all, we need a hard nosed conservative Field Marshall with the vision, unwavering determination and charisma to lead us. I, like you, do not see Michael Steele as that leader. He may be a Halleck or a Marshall, merely capable of re-organizing and re-equipping an army, but he is no Grant or Eisenhower.

I'm not sure who our lineage of great strategic conservative commanders should be. It could be Jindal and Palin. It could be DeMint and Sanford or any combination. It might take another decade waiting for a new breed of conservative young guns like D. Hunter to emerge as the follow on leaders, but it is absolutely essential that we think and act ahead of the curve by following a cultivation process and nourish new conservative blood to fill future leadership roles.

It is asking a lot. It will be long, tough, grinding work under continual shot and shell from the enemy camp. It will also mean working amongst and against the leftist enemy in direct confrontation and surreptitiously on every street corner, in every school, in every church and town to weaken their hold on the American psyche. Make no mistake- the left is strongly equipped and ruthlessly organized for this kind of fight- after all, that's how they won this past election. But ultimately the left's grand philosophy lacks the ability to turn rhetoric into the ingredients necessary to quench the undeniable thirst to human nature- the need to be free and unchained from tryanny, to make and live by one's own decisions and pursue happiness. It is their Achilles heal. We need to exploit this weakness at every opportunity and at every level to turn the tide back in our favor.

The current state of affairs demands that we act swiftly and boldly. Moderation and equivocating with the left won't get us anywhere. It just helps dig ourselves a deeper grave. If we don't act now towards taking these bold strategic steps as conservatives, we may as well leave the field and relinquish our right to self govern- to merely become slaves of the total socialist state that's moving inexorably towards us at a rapid pace.

110 posted on 02/14/2009 11:15:13 AM PST by TADSLOS
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To: TADSLOS
Thank you for a thoughtful and wonderfully articulate reply. One cannot wholly despair for the future of conservatism when we see clear thinking clearly expressed. I believe your reply deserves considered attention but it is approaching my bedtime here in Germany so I will sleep on your thoughts and content myself for now with responding with part of a reply I wrote beforethe election. I set it out again now because I see the dilemma of the Republican Party to be the rift between social conservatives and fiscal conservatives. I believe that if this gulf cannot be bridged you will be proved absolutely correct, there will be no hope then for the Republican Party. Furthermore, I see this rift as the source of the impotence which afflicts the party. In other words, I believe the fiscal conservatives are much like the conservatives of 1940 France: they would rather see the fascists of Germany rule France than the Communists of France. America's present-day fiscal conservatives would rather see the communists rule than the evangelicals. I hope to respond to more of your post tomorrow, meanwhile here is the reply:

I think we should see this article for what it is, a ranging shot by the fiscal conservatives in the initial skirmishes to establish party dominance. The fiscal conservatives who fancy themselves intellectuals want to establish their primacy in whatever new order emerges in the aftermath of the election debacle.

I want all flavors of conservatives to try to do this even though I believe that somehow fiscal conservatives must be brought one way or another to an accommodation with Social conservatives. I want to do this because the only way the party as a whole will hammer out a definition of conservatism which can be subscribed to across-the-board is to argue about it. In fact, I hope the arguments get ferocious and bitter before they are finished. One side or the other must capitulate, or there must be a mutual accommodation, but there can be no uneasy armistice leaving wounds festering and suppurating as we traipse about in the wilderness. From a previous post:

As we conservatives drag the remnants of our movement into the wilderness with no idea how we will emerge or whether we will ever emerge as an electoral force in America which is recognizable by my generation, we must inevitably engage ourselves in the most soul- searing inquiry of what went wrong. This will be an agony but equally it will be effective only to the degree that it hurts. It will not succeed without bloodshed. There must be finger-pointing and bloodletting. We must carve to the bone. The process must be Darwinian. Those whose ideas are false must be bayoneted on the trail.

The object is to find our soul - nothing less. In a come to Jesus sense we must get absolutely clear what it means to be a conservative. Only at this point do we look to the tent flaps and open them. Those who cannot subscribe to the hard-won consensus, to a confession of faith as to what is a conservative, should walk out through that flap. Those who are attracted from the outside to the core message of conservatism should be encouraged to walk through the flap and enlarge the tent. What the left wants us to do is to expand the census in the tent prematurely and thus turn a movement into a menagerie.

In the last couple of days I have been prompted to comment several times on the sense of embarrassment the fiscal elitist conservatives seem to have for at least one third of the party.

I believe that the big battle in the party will not be between conservatives and moderates but between social conservatives and fiscal conservatives who are primarily libertarian. Both flavors of conservatives find common ground in strong defense. Fiscal conservatives are generally not as enthusiastic about Second Amendment rights, but the issue is not a dealbreaker. Social conservatives are almost universally fiscal conservatives but not all fiscal conservatives share social conservatives concerns about abortion and the ancillary issue of the morning after pill, education, religion in the public square, homosexual union, stem cell research, and pornography, marital fidelity as a prerequisite to public service, and evolution.

If social conservatives would accept formulations of public morality the organizing principle of which is the protection of an identifiable victim rather than the vindication of a moral precept, fiscal conservatives and libertarians would be much more comfortable in the party. Fiscal conservatives, for their part, must go to bat for Christians when they are embattled by the secularists who would rob them of their faith through the arm of government. Fiscal conservatives owe Christian conservatives one more consideration, they must stop their smug condescension and their eye rolling whenever Christians express their faith in public. Consider for example the execrable figure of the son of William F. Buckley Jr. abandoning the McCain/Palin ticket for ill disguised abhorrence of Palin's faith. This is probably the last kind of bigotry that is socially acceptable in America but it must no longer be acceptable among conservatives. Buckley claims that he is a "small government conservative" but I claim that no matter how small his government, he is no conservative at all but something quite alien to us.

If the conservative movement is to be salvaged, this dichotomy will have to be resolved either along lines that I suggest or some other way. The alternative is a further splintering of the party and that would be very, very unfortunate.


111 posted on 02/14/2009 12:21:45 PM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: A Navy Vet
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost; the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring; renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.

Deep stuff, even if it is from the Hobbit guy. My point is, don't assume everything of value is going to be lost irretrevably.

112 posted on 02/14/2009 12:36:32 PM PST by x
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To: familyop
...So no thanks. I don’t want to be any part of any seditious effort by Vietnam-era spooks or former US owners of manufacturing plants in communist/fascist foreign countries.

There again you lost me, so you think that people from the Vietnam era are spooky, spoiled, selfish, seditious, communist, fascist, factory owning Neo-Nazi's that just want to over-throw the Government?

In a different time and without a bunch of wussies running around, they were called... oh what is the word I'm looking for... oh yes, they would have been called Patriots... fighting for something called the Constitution!

113 posted on 02/14/2009 1:04:31 PM PST by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: AvOrdVet
I liked your answer so much that I am going to repost it.

.So no thanks. I don’t want to be any part of any seditious effort by Vietnam-era spooks or former US owners of manufacturing plants in communist/fascist foreign countries.

There again you lost me, so you think that people from the Vietnam era are spooky, spoiled, selfish, seditious, communist, fascist, factory owning Neo-Nazi's that just want to over-throw the Government?

In a different time and without a bunch of wussies running around, they were called... oh what is the word I'm looking for... oh yes, they would have been called Patriots... fighting for something called the Constitution!

114 posted on 02/14/2009 1:15:29 PM PST by Eva (CHANGE- the post modern euphemism for Marxist revolution.)
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To: Eva

Yeah, sometimes I just crack myself up! Then again, sometimes people just make it sooooo easy! ;-)


115 posted on 02/14/2009 1:28:31 PM PST by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: nathanbedford
Thanks nathanbedford. I think that your reply, when boiled down, reminds me of Lincoln's famous quote concerning solidarity in purpose from another time:

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.

The struggle between fiscal and social conservatives, as you describe it, needs to be resolved in order to move forward. I do think, however, that the GOP brand has become so soiled and the carcass so rotted as to be useless as a mechanism to effect a positive outcome for that union. We need to bridge those differences and build a new house to co-habitate in at the same time. That's no easy task.

116 posted on 02/14/2009 1:36:14 PM PST by TADSLOS
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To: AvOrdVet

The response seemed a little out of step with some of your other responses, though.


117 posted on 02/14/2009 1:37:48 PM PST by Eva (CHANGE- the post modern euphemism for Marxist revolution.)
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To: Eva

As in?


118 posted on 02/14/2009 1:38:48 PM PST by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: Eva
The response seemed a little out of step with some of your other responses, though.

Meaning?

119 posted on 02/14/2009 1:55:58 PM PST by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: AvOrdVet

Sometimes I think that you like to argue a point for the sake of arguing.


120 posted on 02/14/2009 3:27:46 PM PST by Eva (CHANGE- the post modern euphemism for Marxist revolution.)
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