Posted on 02/13/2009 8:05:16 AM PST by Dick Bachert
Hysterically funny...
My point was merely that this existed. Many believe that after 1804 or so there was no slavery in the North...not true.There was a small amount up to the civil war as you pointed out.
Can you specify where? I’ve researched it a little and can find no evidence, but that doesn’t mean there weren’t.
I have a degree in History, a masters in Southern History, and I never came across a professor who felt that way. In fact, for most of them, finding a different angle on any historical event, as long as it was based on solid research was a good thing.
The problem with anti-Lincoln research is that it must ignore overwhelming evidence that often refutes it. The Baltimore plot is a prime example. There were plenty of Lincoln detractors when he was president and many of them wrote very negative things about him when he slipped into Washington wearing a felt hat. The assumption was that he wore it as a disguise when there is no evidence to back that assumption. They tried to paint him as a coward when in fact he was simply, and reluctantly, following the advice of Pinkerton. So, if one uses periodicals of the time and nothing else, one is led to believe Lincoln was a coward and wore a full disguise to avoid being recognized, when if fact he was in a train that no one knew had the new president on board. Likewise, one cannot depend on Pinkerton's writing on the subject since he was likely going to be self serving both because his reputation was at stake and he liked Lincoln.
There is nothing wrong with writing negative things about Lincoln, and no president is immune from it. But, the anti-Lincoln writings by secession apologists always place motives for his actions that can't be supported by the evidence. They take things he did out of context of what his options were in order to paint him as a tyrant with no morals. His motivation was to save the union and everything he did, right or wrong was to that end.
As to Mary Todd and the children I don't know what you are referring to. She was not on the trip with Lincoln, so not sure what she has to do with the issue. There were reports that she was ashamed of what he did, but that is totally without foundation. She was so terrified of plots against him she was more likely to want him to do whatever it took to avoid assassination.
“I know Stanton didn’t have a very high opinion of Lincoln early on, but as the war progressed, he came to admire and respect him.”
About the best book I’ve read on any of this is Goodwin’s “Team of Rivals.” Most of his cabinet had a low opinion of Lincoln early on, but came to respect him greatly as the war progressed.
“There are documented cases of slavery in Connecticut (went to high school there), Rhode Island”
Not sure what documents you are referring to, but Connecticut outlawed slavery in 1848. In 1840 Rhode Island only had 4 slaves left, all of who were free well before the Civil War started. I keep reading these posting about slaves in the North, which is of course possible, but since all the northern states had abolished slavery before the war began, whoever owned the slaves was committing a crime.
LOL ! I'd give the degrees back; or at least never talk about them again.
Pushing back the frontiers of ignorance, as Dr. Williams likes to say ... Mary and the children were left to continue on on the train that "Honest" Abe feared would be attacked.
See, the problem for people like you is that people like me have actually researched this stuff. I have copies of the primary accounts of the day. I am making one such account available to you written by a guy who rode on the train with Mary. This is from page 8 of the New York Times of February 26, 1861. And you should note that this is what lawyers call an admission against interests. The Times reporter was a strong Lincoln supporter. The stuff you should read begins at the first new paragraph at the top of the second column ("Mrs Lincoln did not seem in the best of spirits ...") and continues for most of the column. The stuff in the first column is important too, but does not deal with Mrs. Lincoln.
Let me know whether any of this makes an impression upon you.
ML/NJ
“Mary and the children were left to continue on on the train that “Honest” Abe feared would be attacked.”
You are correct she rode on the train without Lincoln. I have not read into the finer details of the event because in the scheme of things it is of little relevance. You are of course researching anything that helps shed a bad light on Lincoln and if that is the best you can do, well, it’s the best you can do. Lincoln had to be convinced by Pinckerton and and aides to switch trains, so the implication he was afraid is your take on it.
What you do is start with a point of view, then accept anything you read that supports that view, and reject anything you read that goes against it. It’s dishonest research. The fact you always refer to Lincoln sarcastically as “Honest” Abe is pretty much a giveaway that for you history is about supporting an agenda and not discovering any truths.
No, Peabrain. You see, I started off like you, northern educated, memorized the Gettysburg Address, worshiped at the Great Memorial in Washington, DC. But then I read some wacko history that said some awful things about the Great Man. This can't be, I thought. But some of those awful things I could verify even with an Encyclopedia Britannica. Since some were true I looked more deeply into the others, including this about Lincoln leaving his family ride on a train he believed might be attacked. The only "awful thing" I haven't verified to my satisfaction is the claim that Lincoln at one point ordered the arrest of Chief Justice Taney. I did eventually obtain George Brown's book which also makes this assertion, but I still have my doubts. The bottom line is that Lincoln was a scumbag and that the histories that most people read have been sanitized to obscure or hide this fact.
(FTR, I have never lived south of the metro NYC area.)
ML/NJ
So on the basis of his train trip and vague assertions about arresting Taney you have decided Lincoln was a scumbag. Talk about peabrains!
ML/NJ
“You obviously have difficulty both with your history and your understanding of the English language.”
You obviously have difficulty with your history and understanding of the English language.
See me after class!
There must have been grandfathered in them because the local historical societies have record indicating slavery existed in such places as late as 1860.
Here is an article from Wiki about Jersey. There were pockets of slavery in New England as well.
New Jersey banned the importation of slaves in 1788, but at the same time forbade free Negroes from elsewhere from settling in the state. [5] In the years following the American Revolution, the emphasis on legal equality and the rights of man caused legislators in some states to consider abolishing slavery. The New Jersey state legislature was the last in the north to do so, passing a law in 1804 for the gradual abolition of slavery. [6] The 1804 statute and subsequent laws freed only slaves born after the law was passed. Furthermore, African Americans had to serve lengthy apprenticeships to the owners of their mothers. Women were freed at 21, but men were not emancipated until the age of 25. Slaves born before these laws were passed were considered “apprenticed for life.”
Although at first New Jersey allowed African American men to vote, the legislature disfranchised them in 1807. In 1830 two-thirds of those enslaved in the North lived in New Jersey. It was not until 1846 that New Jersey completely abolished slavery. [5]Although slavery was abolished in 1846 by statute (”An Act to Abolish Slavery”), it was only a name change. [7] Former slaves were termed apprentices and were still subject to servitude to their owners. It was not until the Thirteenth Ammendment to the United States Constitution was passed that all forms of involuntary servitude were abolished in New Jersey.
I don’t see how those who believed in slavery would have offered freedom to others...also I am from the South essentially-military brat-lived all over including the South. Mom is a Virginian...old family. There was really a caste system in the South even after the end of slavery...best families...Byrd etc.
Well, I stand corrected.
Read my post...indentured for life is still slavery.
I agree. My post was not sarcastic. Apparently, there were still some slaves in the north during the Civil War.
Sorry, I feel really stupid...wasted some good sarcasm on one who failed to appreciate it properly...lol.
Re-read your post...now I feel really foolish...I don’t think I should continue to post incorrectly...ah.
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