Air Force: Dogfighters out, warthogs in

Las Vegas Sun ^ | 1/29/2009 | Megan McCloskey

[bobjam]

One of the things I liked about Rumsfled was that he worked on pushing the military out of its Cold War mind set. As my brother-in-law (Army) put it, the Army was run by a bunch of colonels and generals who were trained to fight Soviet tanks in Germany and not insurgents in Kandahar.

[RSmithOpt]

Without a doubt, the best in close ground support aircraft to ever fly, PERIOD. If politico’s and DOD contractor execs would stop with their greed, such aircraft could easily be improved upon w/ regards to avionics, weapons systems and performance. No need to change the armor on this aircraft unless it is lighter weight and performs like that on the Abrahams.

[kickonly88]

‘There is nothing more sexy to the guys (and girls) on the ground as a hog in the air.’

That’s true! And an AC-130 as well!

[mbynack]

Comparing the A-10 to an air to air fighter is like comparing apples to coconuts. They have vastly different roles. Without the fighters to clear out enemy aircraft, the A-10 and the choppers are slow flying target-practice for enemy fighters. Red Flag makes a lot of sense for Air-to-Air because fighter pilots don't get a lot of opportunities to fly Dissimilar Air Combat Tactics (i.e., against other types of aircraft using enemy tactics). An A-10 needs to work with Army ground units so they can get realistic training at the Army Ranges.

One type of aircraft is useless without the other. The A-10 can't fly in an environment where we don't have air superiority and the air-to-air planes can't take and hold the ground.

[Badeye]

We will always disagree on this one.

[Badeye]

So I’ve been told.

[appleseed]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the army used the fixed wing, turboprop OV/1 in Vietnam for close ground support with success. Maneuverability and quiet was its strong point. Maybe the Hawk was the idea behind the Hog. Too bad the air force thought and thinks they have the market on fixed-wing aircraft.

[HenpeckedCon]

You're probably right, but the Air Force ain't going away so my suggestion makes the most sense.

[Badeye]

Alas, they won’t look to either of us for sound advice.

[Ronin]

Yepperdoodle, good thing we got them there zoomies to keep the Taliban Air Force off our A-10s.

No wait....

[Professional Engineer]

Go Ugly Early bttt

[CholeraJoe]

I've worked with them in Search and Rescue. I was glad to have them watching my back.

[A.A. Cunningham]

The A-10 along with Apache helicopters were responsible for the Highway to Hell victory during the end of Desert Storm.

No need to engage in revisionist history. There were quite a few other platforms involved in that turkey shoot, particularly Marine TACAIR. I suggest you speak with the F/A-18D FastFAC aircrews who were coordinating the strikes for the real gouge.

[skimbell]

"...I hate the idea that the Army has to rely on the Air Force for support..."

So does the Army.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Well so far our real enemies have a distinct lack of hi tech aircraft, they do have lots of SAMs, tanks and other ground based weapons, of which the Warthog is arguably the best fixed wing offensive weapon we have.

Only in a low threat environment, otherwise the A-10 is extremely vulnerable to MANPADS and AAA. Little known fact; during Desert Storm the Air Force lost more A-10s to those threats than the Marine Corps lost AV-8Bs.

[PapaBear3625]

Problem is, haven't they stopped making A-10's? And there isn't an A-10 replacement in development either. The JSF is billed as taking over the air-to-ground role, but I don't think it would do nearly as good as the A-10.

We also need a UAV with a big Gatling that can act as a "mini-me" A-10.

[Yo-Yo]

I can’t begin to tell you how utterly devastating and pure kick ass this platform is. I’ve called them in from the ground and worked with them in the air on JAAT missions, They are a pure joy to watch and I thank God they’re on our side.

Carefull, or else A.A.Cunningham will start calling you a Zoomie Kool-Aid drinker!

</sarc>

[SJSAMPLE]

You hit it.
Most people think the A-10 is capable of flying in an unattrited atmosphere, and it’s clearly not.

During ODS, the A-10 never intentionally flew in contested airspace or in an ADA environment. Fast movers usually cleared out ADA before the A-10 went to work.

When it was hit, it survived.
But, it was hit by the remaining ADA assets and not by the brunt of what existed before F-16s cleared the kill box.

The A-10 may be doing great in Afghanistan, but too many extrapolate its capabilities to other conflicts, or fail to see what future conflicts may bring.

[alfa6]

Need more Pics...

This plane needs some more stores on the wings:-)

Back to mines of salt I must go.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[SJSAMPLE]

Why a gun at all?
Newer UAV are carrying Hellfires, can carry the SDB, and there’s even a laser-guided 2.75” rocket now available.

Carrying a heavy gun with tons of dumb munitions is counterproductive for that kind of work. Especially when it requires the UAV to orient and close in with the target. Hellfires and rockets don’t.