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To: BonRad

If you know the content of such oaths you should probably state them. We will not be willing to quote the actual oath, but we will be willing to state whether what you allege has any basis in truth. From my own understanding, the oath is explicitly pro-God, who I am charged to always refer to with reverence as is due from a creature to a Creator, to invoke His aid in all my laudable undertakings and to esteem Him the chief good. All other obligations in Masonry are subject and consequent to this charge.

As to patriotism, after having charged the new entered apprentice to also pursue his duty to his neighbor (act upon the square with all) and then to himself (avoid all intemperance and irregularity, which may impair his faculties and debase the dignity of his profession), he is charged to be “a quiet and peaceable citizen, true to his government, and just to his country. He is not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but to patiently submit to legal authority and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which he lives.”

Perhaps you do not consider these elements to support a firm belief in God or to emphasize the importance of being a loyal and patriotic citizen. Perhaps you might buy a dictionary, in which case.


181 posted on 01/19/2009 2:25:07 AM PST by BelegStrongbow (Hypocrisy never bothers the hypocrite)
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To: BelegStrongbow

The “oaths” are irrational. Any oath that expresses fidelity to a divinity or to uphold neighbor’s well-being (these being open-ended as is, quite difficult to know what the true objective is), becomes moot when one gives a further oath of obedience to higher-ups (Worshipful Master comes to mind).

Freemasons are bound to their leaders. The sect or lodge is only as responsive to their other oaths as their leaders.

As the apparent leaders of the local lodge are with same obedience oath(s) to the further central lodge leader(s), the whole system is prone to personal opinion(s) of said leader(s). You must know if you are out of high school that a major contention of critics is that even those inner-circle lodge “grandmasters” are subject to the rule of yet others. Thus on using logic-in-obedience-lineage alone, there cannot be objective, immutable definition of God and Country in freemasonry. Nor can there be objective truth as to God and Country on the merits of the concepts alone. God has revealed Himself as being (the) God of Popes and Saints, and lodges have near always been at war with each other over what you describe as “patriotism”.

Masons can be very noble patriots, as we see with so many of the US Founding Fathers, but the system finally breaks down, as we see today, eh! It is “godless”, finally. We have organized satanism being accepted in US prisons as “religion”, just as an example.

What I’d really like to know is what your count is on Mason signatories of the US Constitution (39 total signatories). Some put it as low as 9, another as high as 20, most around 12.


224 posted on 01/19/2009 6:41:54 PM PST by BonRad (As Rome goes so goes the world)
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