after doing so many charity events i lost my fear of public speaking though i'm still not fond of it...
Posted on 01/16/2009 9:54:17 AM PST by BGHater
> isn’t a belief in God (however you belive) required in masonry?
Yes, just as you’ve said.
A belief in God is an absolute requirement of Freemasonry. This means that technically there can be no such thing as an Athiest Freemason, and it also probably precludes Agnostics from joining as well.
When an Entered Apprentice begins his Degree he is asked a question that requires him to positively identify that he believes in God. If he does not, then the initiation ends right there and he will not be permitted to join. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Do you deny that Albert Pike's book is the basic text of (at least) American Freemasonry? You know that it is. Why not simply admit that Freemasonry has a special place in its institutional heart for Lucifer?
I’m a Christian and a Freemason. How do you reconcile that dichotomy?
I have no idea. The two flatly contradict each other. One is all about the worship of the Father in Christ, the other is profoundly Luciferian and anti-Christ.
How do you reconcile the two?
> Do you deny that Albert Pike’s book is the basic text of (at least) American Freemasonry?
Yes, to the best of my knowledge Albert Pike, like all other masons, was entitled to his opinion, and that his writings are read with a degree of interest by a few American masons, but no his writings are not considered *the* basic text of American Freemasonry.
The “basic text of Freemasonry” is, in most Lodges where Christianity is practised, the Holy Bible (OT and NT). It has always been so, long before Albert Pike’s time.
For the avoidance of doubt I have copied a few of my American brethren into this message, in case I have made an error with the statements above. Naturally, if I have they will correct me.
> You know that it is.
Actually, I know that it isn’t, and I have just written for confirmation of same. Unless, of course, it is your intention to call me a Liar...
> Why not simply admit that Freemasonry has a special place in its institutional heart for Lucifer?
Ummmm... because it just isn’t so? Too easy an answer for you?
> I have no idea. The two flatly contradict each other. One is all about the worship of the Father in Christ, the other is profoundly Luciferian and anti-Christ.
Hogwash. I’m sorry if that sounds disrespectful, but what a load of nonsense. Truly.
> How do you reconcile the two?
Easy. The two practises are quite compatible.
And isn’t the word from which “devil” is translated “diabolos”? And does that word not mean “slanderer or false-accuser”?
Have you not considered the possibility that by making these wild accusations against your fellow Christians YOU may well be acting as a “slanderer or false-accuser”?
(I suggest that this distinct possibility may indeed be the case)
If that is true, then how do you reconcile doing the Devil’s work for Him?
Please do not read more into my statements than what has been provided.
There are many good works performed by Masons. A weakness posed to most Masons I’ve encountered is to confuse human good works with divine good works.
Likewise, I wouldn’t confuse the issue as to if it is possible for a Mason to be a believer in Christ with the statement that those who believe in God through faith in Christ are denied admittance into Freemasonry.
There is no environment which is able to deny a believer a relationship with God through faith in Christ prior to the first death.
I suspect some 30-40 years ago, a much larger percentage of Masons were believers in Christ. It might be the case that once a certain percentage of Masons slipped into anti-Christian thinking, they led many of the organizations from grieving the Holy Spirit towards quenching the Holy Spirit and now with explicit campaigns to fully quench the Holy Spirit and the Plan of God if that were even possible.
There is strong evidence that the Masonic structures were anti-Christian for the past 2 millennium, but even if so established, they still would be impotent to resist God Himself through faith in Christ. Christ wasn’t very impressed in a positive sense of the efforts of the builders in the Incarnation, but even they still had opportunity to come to Him.
The positive approach isn’t to dwell on the reprobate and unrighteousness of those who seek to work independently of faith in Christ, but to encourage those who are in a deceptive environment, not to fall into the trap of doind what is right in their own eyes when they work independently of faith in Christ.
after doing so many charity events i lost my fear of public speaking though i'm still not fond of it...
> after doing so many charity events i lost my fear of public speaking though i’m still not fond of it...
Goodonya! That was a huge number of events. I have found doing the Charges to be good practise for public speaking.
No one is "reading" anything into your statements. I have quoted you exactly:
Masons deny membership to those who simply state they believe in God through faith in Christ. On the other hand, they insist they welcome only those who believe in God. If the latter statement were indeed true, then the prior statement as a subset would be included, but those with faith through Christ are excluded. Go figure.
This has already been proved by more than one of us to be a contemptible LIE. Go to any Grand Lodge website and you will see that it is against the basic tenets of Freemasonry to inquire further into a petitioner's religious beliefs beyond his belief in a supreme being.
As far as your "testimony", it is impossible to read more into it than you have said because you have said nothing beyond making some vague accusations against folks that you refuse to identify.
Face it, you have been "outed". It is pointless to continue to engage in a discussion with someone who makes up their own "facts" as they go along.
My son had the same experience. In fact, he was terrified while doing his proficiency in open lodge. LOL
Obviously, he got over it. On December 27th 2007, at the end of my year in the East.... I was honored to turn the gavel over to him.
PalmettoMason: This has already been proved by more than one of us to be a contemptible LIE.
I assert my statement is true testimony. When perfect justice is required it will be placed before higher authority.
What do you mean the above statement is a "LIE"?
Which God are you referencing?
If any god other than God through faith in Christ, then we are not referencing the same God.
Accordingly, the deceiving spirit will attempt to demand one's allegiance to a Supreme Being, but reject faith through Christ so as to glean worship from man to the Adversary, counterfeiting God as the object of worship.
There is no other name under heaven by which we have salvation than our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
The Adversary has already declared he would make himself as the one most high. It isn't surprising when he seeks others to worship him blindfully in the dark.
Eye-in-the-Pyramid bump
Outstanding...!!!
Might we have a potential “Plonker List” inductee?
> Might we have a potential “Plonker List” inductee?
Our candidate certainly has put in the effort, ay, and he comes well-recommended. “White ball elects, black ball rejects...”
Bravo! That must have felt marvelous!
LOL!
> Might we have a potential “Plonker List” inductee?
In truth, with the likes of that fellow there would be no satisfying him of any answer except that there is a massive conspiracy within Freemasonry to be in league with Lucifer, al Qaeda and the Grinch who stole Christmas.
They would find all of that believable: a simple truthful explanation they would not. Therefore they are self-nominating wilfully-plonkered individuals.
It was incredible! It was another step on our Masonic journey together. I had turned in his petition for the degrees, and sat in the East for each of them. I gave him his apron lecture, his working tools lecture in each degree, and raised him to the sublime degree, as well as coaching him throughout his catechism.
Yep, I'm a proud Papa.
Are you suggesting that they should save us the trouble, and just go plonk themselves?
> Are you suggesting that they should save us the trouble, and just go plonk themselves?
(grin!) Hmmmmmm... They should certainly do that! But perhaps we should also give credit where credit is due. If people are willing to go to all the effort of plonktificating, perhaps we should make some formal effort on their behalf, ay.
No need for a secret ballot.
I vote in the affirmative by the usual sign.
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