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To: death2tyrants
“Well, if he shouldn’t have thrown a temper tantrum, and he shouldn’t have shrugged it off, what exactly should he have done?”

I don't know. I'm not the President. He's supposed to be smarter than me. He might have made a statement about the seriousness of such an insult and how the U.S. doesn't take such insults - even from such an inconsequential nonentity as this guy - lightly.

“A deliberate serious insult? By some Joe Shmoe reporter based in Egypt? I take it you never bothered to watch how the US msm treats him during the press conferences.”

Insults are not suffered lightly in the Islamic world. People there who ignore insults lose face. It is NOT a 21st century western culture.

“The nay-sayers claimed that effort to remove Saddam would fail.”

Wasn't me. I supported and continue to support our removal of Saddam. I had no doubt we could do it. Iraq was a third rate military power. I think our accomplishments in Afghanistan were far more epochal from the perspective of military accomplishment.

“Then they said that the Iraqi elections would fail.”

Well, let’s see - the elections came off without a serious hitch - which was good - but the people who wound up in power are a bunch of miserable Islamic ingrates - which is no surprise considering who elected them.

” Then they said the surge would fail.”

Not me. The use of overwhelming military force to overcome military opposition is a no-brainer unless you are a Democrat - or George Bush II since it apparently took him several years to come to that realization despite advice to the contrary.

” Being wrong about everything, now they claim that ‘In the long run, Iraq will once again degenerate into the kind of mindless violence..yada yada yada..’ despite the fact that Iraq’s security forces and army are becoming increasing effective at rooting out violence.”

Name one Arabic Islamic Democracy which is successful.

“The nay-sayers have reached a state of denial as noted with your use of quotations for the word ‘democracy’. Iraq is internationally recognized as a federal, democratic, pluralistic, and unified state and has held free and fair elections that have exceeded the international standards. The P-5 unanimously concluded this via UNSC 1546 and UNSC 1723.”

Sorry. I'm not impressed. Neither are the thousands of homeless Assyrian and Chaldean Christians who are finding an Islamic “Democracy” can be a far more dangerous place than an Islamic military dictatorship.

You can't assume that all people everywhere are fit to govern themselves or that they are even capable of doing so if the opportunity presents itself.

The best functioning democracy which ever existed is ours. And it didn't get handed to us or spring fully blown from the pages of history. We had to fight for it a long time and it took CENTURIES of practice.

Come back in ten years and tell me its working in Iraq and I will THEN believe it.

73 posted on 12/15/2008 5:12:05 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

“I don’t know.”

Figures.

“seriousness of such an insult”

The guy was a journalist, not a spokesman for the democratically elected government.

“but the people who wound up in power are a bunch of miserable Islamic ingrates “

The people who wound up in power have joined us in marginalizing the Sunni and Shia extremists.

“Name one Arabic Islamic Democracy which is successful.”

Exactly. Our achievement is unprecedented. It shows how absurd the nay-sayers are who are still trying to claim that Iraq is a failure. And they are foolish enough to try to politicize a shoe thowing incident by a journalist as proof of their poorly thought out conclusion.

“I’m not impressed.”

Of course not. You are in denial that Iraq is even a democratic state, despite the unanimous declaration of the P-5.

“Neither are the thousands of homeless Assyrian and Chaldean Christians...”

The crimes you sight are not sanctioned by the democratically elected government and thus are nothing more than fallacious arguments.

“You can’t assume that all people everywhere are fit to govern themselves”

You adhere to cultural condescension.

“The best functioning democracy which ever existed is ours. And it didn’t get handed to us..”

It didn’t get handed to the Iraqis. They fought against both al-Qaeda and Iranian backed militias who were attempting to undermine their democratic state. They joined efforts with coalition members to fight against these elements. We had foreign assistance in our struggle as well.


74 posted on 12/15/2008 7:36:26 PM PST by death2tyrants
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