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To: neb52

Heh, that was long. :’) Very interesting though. The tsarist regime had built its Trans-Siberian railway, which opened commerce to the Pacific, and completed it shortly before WWI. Getting grain via the Pacific probably couldn’t work I suppose, given the head-east infrastructure for US grain distribution.

Clearly everyone involved should have thought it through a bit better before embarking on the war itself. Avoiding WWI is perhaps the greatest “what-if” scenario of the 20th century. For example, I wonder if the overthrow of the tsar would even have been feasible had it not been for the necessity of buying and building so many small arms for the war itself.

Another of the goals of Bismarck’s treaty system had been to collaborate with Russia on the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire. Despite that covert history, Germany was also openly collaborating with Turkey on the construction of the proposed Berlin to Baghdad (to Basra) rail line, basically a commercial enterprise to broaden commerce between Germany and the Far East (and bypassing the Suez Canal, Gibraltar, English Channel, etc, and in the process, British shipping) while strengthening and modernizing the caliphate’s control over its territories.


35 posted on 12/07/2008 7:09:03 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
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To: SunkenCiv

Wouldn’t you say though that building the Trans-Siberian railway was more about projecting European Russia to the Pacific Russia then the other away around? Also was there even an established port at the time to rival the old well used and built up year round Black Sea ports? Would of been easier to go through the Baltic, being protected by the British fleet Embargo of Germany, but then there was no year round port there either. Also the TS being new, I don’t think they could of had enough capacity to shipped the needed grain. Russia’s Army I believe was well over 1 million men. Plus moving the grain from the Black Sea to the Austrian and German front would of been quicker.

Another poster stated that the last several Tsars were inadequate. I would have to dispute that. Alexander II and Alexander III both proved very capable and were great liberalizing reformers. Granted AIII’s education was lacking, that was more due to the fact that his brother Nicholas was the heir apparent. Upon Nicholas’s sudden death Alexander, as a grown man, had to jump start his education to the level expected of a Tsar.

While Bismarck supported Russia against the Ottoman Empire, he did stab them in the back at the Berlin Peace Conference of 1878. The Russians had expended huge amounts of money, men and material in their drive for Constantinople. They would of invaded if not for the posturing and maneuvering of Disraeli. The end result of the Treaty of Berlin was Russia ended up with a new Southern border mid way through Bulgaria. They needed more than that in hope of recouping the money. Instead it would take many more years to do so and I believe this double crossing by Germany and Austria soured the Russian-Prussian alliance which would affect Russia’s attitude in 1914.

With both the Crimean War (1853-1856) and the last Russian-Ottoman War I think the Russian Treasury was hurting pretty bad. Even so AII, AIII and NII continued reforming the government and military. I think what did them in was that WWI was such a huge drain on Russia that with NII at the front instead of in St. Petersburg, he was unable to exit the war when necessary and unable to suppress any Marxist revolution. Marxist agitators and been trying all over Europe to ferment rebellion. To survive a nation would have to rapidly enact progressive reform while also cracking down on Marxist assembling and agitation. AII, AIII and NII had been liberalizing Russia, but as some things change many stay the same, that was not fast enough for the “free thinkers”. AII was assassinated by leftist. Of course the Marxist came from the ranks of the educated class. So if NII had been able to continue reform and suppress rebellion he would of survived. But WWI was just to big of sucking hole.


37 posted on 12/07/2008 8:58:06 PM PST by neb52 (Go Frogs!)
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To: SunkenCiv
Clearly everyone involved should have thought it through a bit better before embarking on the war itself.

Sure enough. Who knows if the Schlieffen Plan could ever have worked in the days before armor, but transferring troops from the West to the East to shore up the Russian front pretty well ended any chance of success.

Russia paid a steep price for its service to the West, suffering 70 years of communist rule.

It makes sense this government would restore the Romanovs now that Russia is in effect being ruled by Vladimir I.

39 posted on 12/08/2008 12:49:21 PM PST by colorado tanker ("I just LOVE clinging to my guns and my religion!!!!" - Sarah Palin)
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