VANITY CHAT: Best powder choice for .38 / .357 short barrel loads?

Vanity | 12-6-08 | Vanity

[OKSooner]

Quick question for handloaders:

I've got everything in place and ready to go to load up a couple of decent-sized batches of .38 and .357 loads.

The .38 loads are for practice use in a couple of airweight revolvers.

The .357s are for practice use in a couple of .357 revolvers, both with 3-inch barrels.

All of the above will be loaded with 158-grain cast bullets.

The one variable I haven't figured out is this:

WHICH POWDER IS BEST FOR USE IN SHORT-BARREL HANDGUNS?

[hiredhand]

Ewww! That’s not good! I’d check with a CETME expert. It could be that you could compensate with the sizing die. Are the rollers difficult to replace?

[Manly Warrior]

Pick up a few free reloading manuals at your local reloading supply house.

Pick one that lists your bullet type and weight. Select a powder that has loads designed for your revolvers, Load, shoot. Redo.

Any one of many will do just fine.

Generally, faster powders work well in short barreled guns and lighter bullets.

Pay attention to powder measurements and OAL.

[hiredhand]

I figure any time I can keep somebody from being as stupid as I’ve been in the past and being injured is a good thing! Glad to help! :-)

[mylife]

no worrys my Cetmes check out good

The maximum headspace is .5mm, more than that and the action unlocks early. Less than .25mm and the rifle will probably have trouble with extraction/ejection. In inches that would be about .019 and .009. Larger is better here, as headspace actually becomes smaller with time due the the locking system.

Mine gap at about .014

[Vinnie]

For all but the 45 Colt I use Power Pistol.

That's what I wanted to hear. Clean...

I plan on maxing the 45acp but loading down the 357 and 44 a little.

Gold Dots will be sitting on top.

[mylife]

scratch that last comment thats just doofy.

I cut and pasted this bit to save time,

The maximum headspace is .5mm, more than that and the action unlocks early. Less than .25mm and the rifle will probably have trouble with extraction/ejection. In inches that would be about .019 and .009.. Larger is better here, as headspace actually becomes smaller with time due the the locking system.

I think the condition where a cartridge of this power isnt in battery is a BIG PROBLEM.should the pin drop with the cartridge out of battery is the worst scenario. kaboom

The part about .019 and .009 is correct and thats what I meant to post

[xmission]

While we’re talking about powders, anyone know a load in hs-6 for 180 grain fp lead in .40? Or any other powders that that matter?

[CodeToad]

Power Pistol and Gold Dots, an excellent combination.

[hiredhand]

no worrys my Cetmes check out good

The maximum headspace is .5mm, more than that and the action unlocks early. Less than .25mm and the rifle will probably have trouble with extraction/ejection. In inches that would be about .019 and .009. Larger is better here, as headspace actually becomes smaller with time due the the locking system.

Mine gap at about .014

GOOD deal! I would still recommend investing in the case gages for whatever centerfire rifle cartridge you're going to reload (.308 Win)... because without it, it's possible to use up ALL the available headspace and cause a firing out of battery condition (with a case that's too long from the shoulder to the case head), or to have it move too far forward (because the shoulder was pushed back too far during sizing) and put a lot of stress on the locking mechanism upon ejection. The former is definitely more dangerous than the latter though! The case gage measures the distance between the shoulder slope and the case head. It's got a .008 groove in the end of it. You drop the sized case into the gage and if it falls below the groove, the it's too short then the shoulder was pushed back TOO far during sizing! If it's outside the .008 groove though, it could cause a lack of headspace condition and be DANGEROUS. Anything that measures between the bottom and top of the groove is "good". The groove is also wide enough to get a dial caliper jaw into so it's HANDY to be able to use it in conjunction with the caliper, because sometimes it's just a little tough to tell by sight if the case head is sticking up .001 above the groove! But the dial caliper doesn't lie!...not often anyway. :-) We've got case gages here for .308 Win, .30-06 Springfield, and .223 Remington. Ours are made by Dillon.

The instructions with our gages also said that they doubled as case length gages, but the length measurement (taken at the case mouth end of the gage) seems to disagree WILDLY on all specifications that I have in print on case lengths. So we don't use the gage for case length. We go by data in a Speer reloading manual for that and measure them with a dial caliper until we get the case trimmer set up correctly, and then check every 10th one or so. :-)

How's that CETME shoot? Pretty good? :-)

[DuncanWaring]

As I recall, belted magnums headspace on the belt.

[hiredhand]

As I recall, belted magnums headspace on the belt.

I DO believe you're correct! ...which always made me wonder about pushing the shoulder back too far with an incorrectly set die... How does one gage a belted magnum? The distance from the front of the belt to the case head isn't likely to change. But the distance between the case head and the shoulder could change through stretching, or pushing back via sizing....hmmmm... I wonder! Maybe somebody here who loads for belted magnums can say! I've got a manual here next to me and I'll take a look!:-)

Do you know if the sizing die for the .300 Winmag has a recess for the belt? I'm going to go look. I "think" I've got a set of dies for the beast.

[DuncanWaring]

Don’t know. I don’t reload any belted-magnum cartridges.

[hiredhand]

Ah...nevermind. :-) I do have a die set for the .300 Winmag which I just looked at and there IS a recess in the bottom of the sizing die for the belt. So, it would be impossible to ever push the shoulder back too far...unless of course you were to push the belt back as well!...and if you're putting that much force on the press, the cartridge case is going to FUBARd afterwards anyway. :-)

I miss my .300 Winmag...a Sendero....sold long ago now :-) Maybe if I tell my wife that since I already have the dies, that I need to buy another rifle! :-)

[DuncanWaring]

I think if you push the shoulder back too far due to an incorrectly-set die, you’ll just shorten the case life.

[DuncanWaring]

On belted-magnum cases, that is.

[hiredhand]

I think if you push the shoulder back too far due to an incorrectly-set die, you’ll just shorten the case life.

Absolutely! But what I mean is that with the die for the .300 I was just looking at, you can't do this. Because there's a little recessed ring in the bottom of the die to accommodate the belt and it would certainly stop the case from going too far into the die and therefore pushing the shoulder back too far! Pretty cool really...I never thought about it until now.

[DuncanWaring]

Feed Pudge’s rifle 190 gr Matchkings with 58 grains of RE-19 and Federal 210M primers, you’ll have a 300 WinMag round. That’ll shoot the same trajectory as Federal Match ammo for the .300 WinMag.

[hiredhand]

No kidding?! I'm shooting a "hottie" now that consists of a 180gr Hornady A-Max in front of 49gr of IMR-4064. I e-mailed your load data to myself. The next time I order propellants, I'll pick up some RE-19 (don't have any now) and I'll try it out!

The current load I'm using (above) is OFF the charts in at least one of my load data books and is known to be hot. I got it from an old IBSC shooter that I know. But it's the most accurate load I've ever used. The only real stipulation is that you have to use a good strong rifle (of course) and that it takes a 1:10" twist rate to stabilize it. It shoots GREAT out Pudge's rifle as well as my brother's Rem M-700. But Pudge's rifle weighs in at "about" 15 lbs and recoil is tolerable. My brother's M-700 about tears my arm off to shoot the things. :-) He's a LOT bigger than I am!

[mylife]

Shoots like a .22

[JDoutrider]

Good advice and good choice! I stocked up Winchester Black Talon 9MM ammo before it was removed and use it in my carry semi-autos.

As did I! My friend had a Gun shop when Winchester decided to pull the pin on the line... I bought all he would let go to me (He wanted to save a few boxes for his better customers), I bought all calibers on the rack.

I have heard over the years that if I (a CCW permit holder) were to use Black Talon in a shooting incident, the prosecutors would be delighted to consider them a case enhancer against me... F'em! I still carry them in my CCW pistols!

Have also heard from a buddy of mine who was taken down on a deewee charge that the arresting officers went ape $hit about him carrying the B.T. in His CCW pistol! He beat the deewee, got his piece back, but was told NO WAY he would be gien back those "Cop Killer" bullets!

GMAFB!