Liberal Friends on Facebook. Freeper Advice. (Vanity)

Skenderbej | 11-17-2008

[Skenderbej]

Fellow Freepers, I'm 28 and have peer friends on Facebook who are very liberal. I feel that conservatives are not well represented in my age group and often find myself defending conservative issues from comments by liberals. Below I have posted a brief discussion that took place this evening on Facebook. What could I have done better? For some reason, every time I try to debate a liberal, I get insulted and I am finding myself somewhat discouraged by trying to defend conservative values.

I changed the names, including my own. I'm Kevin. Krissy is conservative, but obviously better friends with Dave, the liberal. Thank you in advance, and sorry for the vanity.

Krissy joined the group "Stop persecuting the Mormons for Prop 8"

Dave commented, "The Mormons set themselves up for persecution when they joined in a discriminatory initiative."

Kevin commented, "What discrimination is being displayed against homosexuals? They have the same opportunity to marry a person of the opposite sex as heterosexuals."

Dave commented, "By your logic, heterosexuals should have the same opportunity to marry a person of the same sex as homosexuals."

(I have to admit, at this point I was confused by his response.)

Krissy commented, "btw - I'm not getting in2 this - it's my choice 2 join the group. I appreciate your opinions, but I did not ask for them."

Dave commented, "Krissy, love ya=)"

Kevin commented (same post time as Krissy's comment), "And pedophiles, beastialists, and the incestuous should be allowed to marry those whom they love? No matter how tolerant we claim to be, we all choose to discriminate in different circumstances. The question is, Who decides where society discriminates and where society is permissive? Prop 8 is a good example of the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution in action.

Krissy commented, "Dave - u no I luv u. Kevin, please go pick a fight with someone else and not on my page. If I wanted anyone's opinion, I really would ask for it. This conversation is over, period."

Dave commented, "Thank you Krissy. This is sooo not worth the argument. Idiot words speak for themselves...clearly."

Dave deleted his posts from the conversation board.

[caver]

Geez, if you want to discuss politics, then go to a forum with some inteliigent people. Facebook is for ignorant adolescents.

[Doug TX]

I’m glad you spoke up. Facebook is a signal of the problem that conservatives are getting their clocks cleaned at the grassroots level.

Some here are aware of these gaps in getting the conservative message to the younger audience. We have a DIGG ping list which I encourage you to join. If you have ideas on how to leverage FR muscle on Facebook or similar, then please add suggestions, frequently if you must.

The challenge is to encourage the users here into a minor role in grassroots internet activisim.

[Lil'freeper]

Honestly, I don't ever, ever debate politics on FB. I use it to keep in touch with college friends who are now scattered all across the country. FB is great for keeping in touch. That said, I have friends on every wackadoodle political extreme, and have explained to/reminded them that we didn't become friends for political reasons, so leave the politics at the door. It's all about setting boundaries.

When it comes to chatting with libs without it devolving into a fight you have to keep it subtle and mirror some of their behaviors and logic to keep them at ease. (You get big points on your extreme subtle snark about everyone already having equal rights to marry opposite sex, btw. Kudos) A snooty, ivy-league tone of voice like Obama's also helps if you're speaking in person. Always give the impression that you're seeking deeper answers and reserving judgement.

Somewhere there are statistics about the large portion of the homosexual population that comes from broken homes and really dysfunctional families. Consider also that feminists have roundly rejected the institution as a form of slavery and that not until the 1960's did women finally break free from being Mrs. John Doe. (and that many feminists believe that the 'religious right' still practices stone age marriage)

The pitch: Given that so many progressive voices consider marriage to be a flawed and oppressive-even dangerous-system, why on earth would homosexuals want in? It's a huge step backwards! Why not create a new system, something that reflects their hope and optimism and belief in progress, that isn't weighed down by historical baggage and the religious right?

The answer of course, is that it isn't about equal rights, it's about destroying what they see as an evil institution. But you won't get them to fess up by arguing with them.

[Lil'freeper]

Facebook is a signal of the problem that conservatives are getting their clocks cleaned at the grassroots level.

Ding ding ding - winner!

[Mad Dawg]

Dave commented, "The Mormons set themselves up for persecution when they joined in a discriminatory initiative."

Oh that's perfect. If I disagree with you and persecute you because of my disagreement, I am justified because you have the Da NOIVE to disagree with me!

[Heartland Mom]

And it's not because the left understands the totality of the issues. It's all about perception. Still comes down to the media ( http://obamahood.org/?p=552 ). If the media would just do their jobs and report everyone equally - there would be no contest. But, they carry the water for the liberals and flat out read talking points to the MTV generation and all those people who don't live on the Internet or care much about alternative media sources are left to rely on sources like CNN or the NYT for their news. They THINK they are informed because both of those outlets have been viewed by and large as respectable journalistic institutions.

Until we either get the MSM to actually report ALL the news or until we get our own mainstream alternative news sources, we will never see another fair election again.

[Ukiapah Heep]

Um, yeah. I wouldn't get serious with any liberal. You'll have a miserable time of it when you come home to the Bullshine.

My hexadecimally named friend has good advice. It's like they said in Animal House just mention Civil Rights, Modern Art, or Primitive Cultures and you're in like Flynn

[Robert DeLong]

It’s not just the media, it is the schools as well. Our children are being brainwashed from a very early age into young adulthood, and the media is just reinforcing what they have learned in schools for the majority of their young lives.

[ropin71]

I’m 42, and I’ve connected with some old school friends on facebook. About half arrived at the conservative level that
I’m on. As for the libs, I do my part to constantly goat them to expose their idiocy, and I have fun doing it.

[prov1813man]

First, I never debate libs in the world, but am sometimes engaged by family members. When that happens I always begin with this disclaimer:

“Warning, no liberal has ever been able to intellectually survive a conversation with me along these lines as my logic is irrefutable and their emotions overtake them in a head exploding expletive laden rage. “

Usually wraps things up right there.

[polymuser]

Logical, rational or factual discussion or debate is not possible with emotional, indoctrinated leftists. You can only provide hard truth statements, with no apologies, and let them wail and gnash their teeth or bug out. (That’s how you know you’re effective.)

[philled]

An old schoolfriend from a couple decades ago found my email and sent me a facebook request. I hadn’t talked to him for a very long time so I accepted the request and created an account. Other than minimal information on my profile, I have done absolutely nothing in facebook. I have noticed that about one quarter of all the liberal people I have ever known have either send “friend requests” or messages to me through it. I’ve ignored them all and don’t think I will ever login to facebook again.

[trisham]

This was neither a debate nor a discussion. Your liberal “friends” aren't capable of defending their beliefs, so they were rude and left as soon as it was clear that you were not in agreement with them. How can one debate someone who runs away?

[CaviarBloke]

“I come from a long line of Americans that believe that the free exchange of thought . . .”

Brilliant response!

[Don Stadt]

I’m very impressed that you want to debate with people who have diametrically opposed views to your own, and in a civil manner.

Upthread, someone said:

“If you are going to debate, get used to the idea that your opponent is seldom going to agree with you and even more seldom going to be polite.”

With respect to the illuminary who came up with that statement - while that might be totally true, if everyone agreed with each other all the time then it’s not a debate but a love-in.

Christianity wouldn’t have progressed very far if people hadn’t been prepared to take the message to the heathens!

The best debates are the ones where people argue with passion, over intractable political or religious differences, without ever descending into personal abuse or physical violence. You learn as much about yourself from those debates, as you learn about your opponent.

So I suppose it all depends on what you want from a discussion board.

Guardian Unlimited is the sort of anarchical left-wing hangout where the rules on what you can and can’t say are quite flexible. The Gruaniad is a commie rag, so don’t expect an easy ride if you go there as a died-in-the-wool freeper with a belt full of rhetoric and no interest in explaining or defending your beliefs.

If you defend your views robustly rather than simply parroting them, the moderators (and to be fair the not-so-loony lefties) will hear you out and you can have a very fulfilling debate.

On the other hand, there are talkboards like this one which is specifically aligned to one viewpoint, sometimes to the detriment of reasoned debate. One friend of mine in the UK got his posting rights revoked within a week of joining FreeRepublic despite being perfectly civil and polite on the handful of posts he actually managed to get out. He was a right-winger with questions, not a leftist troll looking to mock. He was the sort of person this board should be welcoming, not chucking out.

So that’s my sermon to the moderators: Freeper values have much to commend them, but the trouble is that you need non-Freepers (especially those with right wing leanings) to learn what those qualities are, if you’re going to help build up the grass roots support for Sarah Palin.

[Skenderbej]

I would agree if I were bumping shoulders with the high school crowd, like Myspace. But, since I was invited to join Facebook right around the time you joined FreeRepublic, I don’t think I’m too old.

The website originally started as a college networking site and unfortunately grew to allow much younger users. I was 25 and in college when I joined. As the site gets older, those who joined when it was relatively new will get older and the demographics of the site will change.

It is the best way for me to maximize my friendships. I can keep in touch with more friends in less time through Facebook than I could in any other way.

[Toki]

This is why I try never to touch facebook (unless nessicary, which it is in college)... It’s so highschool like. I mean it’s a good concept to keep up with old friends, but there in college is even so much drama associated with it I just don’t touch it.

[Skenderbej]

Thank you for your response. Vacuous was the perfect word (in more than one sense) for describing Dave’s argument, and the reason why I was confused. I really didn’t know what to say back to him because there was no substance to what he was saying and his logic was flawed by affirming the consequent (if A followed by B is true, then B followed by A is true.

The problem that I have most with liberals is what you describe: I live by a moral code that they do not accept. Lacking a moral code allows them to make their own as they go along. Because I have my code, I don’t accept their premises, although this is sometimes very difficult because they call you names and they are not based on logical thought. I just try to point out their hypocrisy (i.e. “accept gays, but hate religion).

[Skenderbej]

Thanks for the good advice. I have to admit, I read Free Republic more than I post because the posters know more than I do on 99.9 percent of the subjects (the Balkans make the .1 percent) and the debate is mostly logical and devoid of personal attacks, even when people disagree. I should not assume that of my liberal friends!

The only reason I did not continue posting on my friend's page is because she asked us not to, and I respected her wish. Unfortunately, Dave felt he needed to take one last jab by calling me an idiot before being a coward and deleting his posts, then taking the “liberal high road” and making another post about being embarrassed about having his name on such a moronic argument.

[word_warrior_bob]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32cxf_yuri-bezmenov

I have no liberals that I’m close to, if they won’t take the time to be de programmed and accept other points of view without reacting like lunatics I have no time for them.

You need to slowly feed these people facts and information and treat them like spoiled, emotional children, because that’s what they are politically. When converting liberals you have to understand that you’re going to trigger cognitive dissonance and they will become enraged and or emotional. You have to be patient and spoon feed them, if they won’t connect with reality you have to forget them.