Ok, I wasn't going to comment on this issue further, since I now understand the "issue" you and others think is at hand here, and, while in a technical sense you and the others on the "BC issue" have a point, I maintain it's little better than a conspiracy theory.
Let's review the sequence of events that have brought us to this point. Apparently you, and others, back in June (and by the way, for anyone who thinks I've been questioning this issue not out of honest ignorance but because I have some underlying agenda, you may, if you are so inclined, check my posting history and you will find that I wasn't on FR from the beginning of June until September, so I've had to play "catch up" with this BC issue) called into question the images of the BC supplied by Obama and others, such as the "FactCheck.org" website (no relation, by the way, for the record).
Subsequently however, some more detailed images have been posted of the BC by Factcheck.org, yet for some reason these are not good enough for the doubters. At this point, everyone's hesitancy to let this go seems to stem on the request to simply view the document for themselves and the (REASONABLE don't get me wrong) question, "Why won't he simply release the 'long form' BC for everyone to view"?
Before I go any further, let me say that YES, it is odd that he has spent all this time and money to prevent people from viewing the original, however there are things here that should be considered, IMO, that it doesn't appear that anyone has considered. First, from the fact check website, one can see from the Hawaii's own request form here (warning: PDF File!!) it's not possible for anyone, even Obama himself, to request to see the "long form". So, given that, and the most recent image from fact check here (that contains a certificate number and an embossed seal that would seem to be difficult to photoshop in) it seems that the people from factcheck.org did indeed view the best that could possibly be produced, even by Obama himself. That's because the request form for a copy of one's BC from Hawaii does not include an option for the "long form". See here (warning: PDF file!!!)
Now, the reason I haven't responded to others who have posted to me since my last post on this issue is because, even given this fact (that there is no way that Obama himself could produce anything better than what factcheck.org already viewed), I suppose it's possible with a court order, that it would be possible to view the "long form" that everyone now seems convinced has something incriminating on it. So, let's wait and see how the legal proceedings go; at least that's my attitude now.
But let's review here. We originally started doubting Obama's citizenship apparently back in June, because the images of his BC didn't have very good resolution, and there were some questions about their authenticity. During the entire summer when the issue came up, BO refused to either comment on the issue, or spent a great deal of time denying anyone access to the BC. Only recently, did factcheck.org have access (again, apparently) to take better pictures.
So now we're not doubting his citizenship because of fuzzy images (because we have better ones now) but now we're doubting it really because he spent so much time and energy denying access to any original(s). However, Oct 31st, Fukimo and Onaka (Director of Health for the State of Hawaii and Registrar of Vital Statistics, respectively) verified that there does indeed exist an "original birth certificate" for Obama. So that we know. We know there's a birth certificate for Obama in Hawaii. Official news release.
So why do we doubt that what the BC in Hawaii we know exists says anything substantially different than the one provided to factcheck.org? Remember, the ORIGINAL reason we started doubting his citizenship was because we couldn't verify that the images back in June were real, (too fuzzy, not the right borders, etc) and also because all through the summer he constantly blocked access to what he had personally, and any access for any news organization to access themselves. But now we know that there's a BC on file in Hawaii. Granted, we don't know what's on THAT certificate, but again, why should we doubt it differs substantially from what we see from factcheck.org now?
You see, it's just a giant circle of "conspiracy" really that, hinges on "we know he is lying because his BC image was too fuzzy to be verifiable" We have better images now though. "We know those are fake because he wouldn't let anyone see the 'long form'". No one (not even BO himself) can see the long form anyway, unless (I would assume) under court order. "So we must conclude that the 'long form' has something he wants to hide".
But why must we conclude that? What independent fact makes us doubt that the BC images now provided is (are) a "fake"? Now I'm no expert in photography or photoshopping, but the image linked to above seems to be original to me.
But let's think about it this way: What if the higher resolution image above had been released back in June? Would we have even gone down this trail? I suppose it's possible at this point to now doubt the higher resolution image(s) (more of which can be found here), but this again calls into play a suggestion that the people that actually went to the Obama headquarters in Chicago are either "lying" or they were given an expertly made "forgery". The lying charge is too easy to make, and really can't be "disproved" so it must be thrown out as bootstrapping. It's possible I suppose that what the factcheck.org people were given was an expertly made forgery, but really, this is a larger question of "who do you trust"?
The only people (without a court order) that will EVER be able to produce a BC (and they will never be able to produce a "long form", even if they wanted to) are Obama and/or anyone he authorizes. Obviously, if we're going to go down the road of forgery (or lying), that charge can be levied any time a copy is produced, and thus no real progress can be made as to what is the TRUTH of the situation, since we'll always be able to say, "Well yes, that must be a fake because Obama (or one of his people) produced it. They must have been able to fake it somehow".
In conclusion, since we know that Hawaii has a BC on file for BO, and since now we have better pictures of the ONLY KIND of BC that anyone, even Obama himself, could possibly produce, there is little reason, at least in my mind, to doubt the "long form" says anything substantially different than what has been produced. Remember, the key point to remember here is that no one, not even Obama himself, can produce the "long form". So all this hemming and hawing about seeing the "long form" ourselves is a red herring. There's no way to see it, other than (presumably, or maybe not even then) with a court order.
That's why I've decided to wait to fully comment until all these court cases are exhausted. But really, I don't see any reason to doubt that what was produced was indeed his BC, to the best of his ability.
One brief point to consider when asking yourself the question, "Why has he spent all this effort to keep it from the public since this broke back in June? Why not just let better pictures be taken right away, and/or let news organizations see a copy for themselves?" Well it seems to me that if we're WRONG about this whole thing, then the time and resources we've spent trying to get this to stick to him we're a pretty massive waste of time on our part.
And dedicated conservatives made to look down an empty rabbit hole must be pretty pleasing to people like Obama. Just something to consider as you, and anyone else, keeps trying to look for reasons to "believe". At least that's what I think when I hear the question, "Why did he spend so much time fighting this?" bandied about.
That post deserves more attention than I can give it at the moment. I need to see my dad in the hospital. (Long story, he is getting better) BBL.
Good post, thanks for the background on your catching up.
True, it would be very challenging to get a long-form BC, but in extraordinary cases it can be done. For example, an adopted child can get one if they suffer from some genetic illnesses, or if they will die without an organ or marrow transplant and they have a rare tissue type not otherwise available.
I would like to think that upholding the Constitution falls under the category of an extraordinary case.
One other minor, but crucial, point. The FightTheSmears.com, and FactCheck.com postings were originally high resolution copies. They showed very clear grey halos around some words and letters. Interestingly enough, this only happened in some of the crucial data fields, never in the standard form text.
Every honest scanning of sample forms on the green bamboo weave background shows halos only in shades of GREEN.
GREEN, never GREY.
OTOH, text generated elsewhere and photoshopped into a sample form shows a grey halo.
The clincher?
After this was pointed out (by Polarik, IIRC) both FightTheSmears.com and FactCheck.com replaced the high resolution images with lower resolution copies.
