Posted on 11/10/2008 7:14:34 AM PST by thefrankbaum
All,
Like many others, I am considering purchasing a semi-automatic long gun. Most likely, an AR-15 as .223 is still fairly easy to come by, and there are a number of "regular" rifles which use the ammunition, so I have some faith that it will remain available for some time period after other ammunition types are outlawed, should that occur.
We have a number of hunting rifles, some WWII German equipment, a few handguns, and plenty of ammunition. I am wondering if any FReepers can shed some light on the ease and advisibility of purchasing a kit from Model 1 Sales and a stripped down lower receiver from some other retailer and then assembling my own weapon. Do people advise against this, or does it seem like a good approach which will allow me to spend more on magazines and ammunition?
Also, I'm currenting thinking of purchasing an A2 upper and 20" barrel, but I know people have strong feelings, so I'd enjoy hearing some other input.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782
I’ve done my last two AR-15 builds.
I’d recommend a DPMS AR multi-tool for helping with assembly. Action blocks are also necessary to keep from twisting your receivers during tightening of the barrel nut. A good set of punches, a pair of needle nose pliers, #2 philips screwdriver, some masking tape, etc... are all necessary as well. At least, it’ll make your job a lot easier.
Go slow. Take your time. It’s all worth it. No matter what you decide to build out.
Better not wait too long. Yesterday morning when the doors opened I went to the counter of my fav. gun shop and got their last WASR pistol grip AK.
(Make sure the gas tube and sights aren’t canted!)
For about the same price I would buy a 308 calliber AR instead. Ammo might be a bit more expensive and heavier than 223, but it will defeat anything out there at 100 yards or even more.
With 223s stay above 55gr ammo. Lower will not actuate the weapon well. The first few times, breaking it in, I would use 60gr at least.
Do not get the Mini14 unless you plan on accurizing it... which is going to cost you about the same or more in the end.
A good foreign alternative in 223 is the Swiss (US built) SIG 556. It shoots better than the AR and has the AK actuation with even better reliability than AK. You can also get the Short Barrel version with silencer after a stamp tax of $200. This thing is bad a$$.
I have seen AKs in 223 jam badly. The AK47 (7.62) jams too. The SKS is better.
YEah, G3 pistols/SBRs are getting so expensive too. I want one so bad. I think I am going to have to risk the budget on it. It’s been all going up. G3s used to be at $400, now $900. I’m still happy with my G2/CETME at $300 though. It now costs about $600.
Well, it looks like I maybe need to look at more up-to-date weaponry...I have stayed too true to past preferences, it seems...
I have put literally thousands of rounds through my Romanian AK (WASR) without a single jam. I've fired US made and Russian import ammo. I've literally beat the living crap out of the thing and have yet to have a single instance of it not going 'bang' when I pulled the trigger.
Not one.
At about $350 a copy I can't see a better value for a SHTF rifle anywhere now.
Is it as accurate as an AR? Nope.
Is it a precision firearm? Nope.
Will it go "bang" every GD time you pull the trigger?
Yep.
If I were limited to only one weapon to pull out of my safe and head out the door with, it'd be one of my Romanian AK variants.
Hands down.
L
Do yourself a huge favor and buy a pre-assembled rifle from a tier one mfg (Colt, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms) and get a flat top.
I think I was issued a couple of those M-16s you trashed and they’re probably still running, 23 years after I used them ;)
The AR family has evolved and is an incredibly useful tool.
Much easier than trying to get a Mini-14 tapped.
Do you have any `trigger-slap’ with your WASR?
don’t waste money on a long barrel, and get the flat top receiver. and don’t waste your time building your own, there’s not enough cost benefit unless you’re really strapped for money, and if that’s the case, get a mini 14 or an AK variant. they aren’t as accurate as an ar, but are cheaper and more reliable.
Check the big outdoors retailers like Cabellas or Gander Mountain. Locally, at least, they still have a good selection of ARs... and some M1As.
I have an M1. You can get military ammunition FMJs with steel cores cheap from the Civilian Marksmanship Program.
It will shoot through 18 inches of oak tree at 200 yards.
A kevlar vest is worthless against it.
It is a one shot, one kill 30-06.
*L* You might have got one of them...But one is at the bottom of the Bassac River...
I had so much trouble with the old M-16 that I have a prejudice against them...probably wrong to feel that way...
My old Mini-14 will serve me, I think, until I pick up a more modern weapon from an enemy that doesn’t need it anymore...*G*
Bump
You guys are gonna kill me for asking - but why do they write it like that - .223 is not the same as 5.56, and are not really interchangeable (although I think that .223 can, in a pinch, be used in 5.56 chamberings).
Or should I not have asked this question?
.223 inches diameter, 5.56 millimeter.
Not really. It's certainly nothing close to 'match grade', but it's tolerable.
L
Oh stop - I know THAT, but ammo is not interchangeable, so why do they note them together as if they were?
I have had (sold the heavy POS junk commie guns eventually) two AK semi auto knockoffs. A Romanian SAR-1 and SAR-2. Ok guns, rough and ugly, somewhat reliable but they did jam. If you shoot steal laqour painted cheap Ruskie Wolf ammo it will jam, as will ANY gun. The SAR-2 (5.45x39) jammed constantly unless I regularly cleaned out the chamber of the paint residue. Both were ok as far as accuracy, not any better than the Min-14 though. The best aspect of the AKs is their mags. Tough as they come.
The Mini 14 is just as reliable, if not more so. Mags are the weak point with the Mini, and not easy to come by good one’s. Genuine Ruger mags are the best and 30 round versions are rare and expensive. The Mini-30 (7.62x39) has NO reliable hi cap mags available IMHO, and that gun hates the commie ammo, so you have no cost advantage with ammo and that gun.
I just got a M-4, which is much tighter tolerances and much more accurate. Mags are abundant, but the Magpul Pmag is the best. Great ergonomics, nice finish, much prettier than the commie designs. Better than the Mini? Mags and accuracy leave it behind and the M-4 is incredibly light, but the Mini is tougher. Closer to the AK except for the mags.
The AKs also had “trigger slap” which was downright painful, and had to replace the trigger groups with ‘red star’ triggers. Ok but I prefer the M-4 overall.
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