Posted on 11/07/2008 10:40:35 AM PST by Traviswf
Hi there. I voted for Obama, but have been reading a lot of Freerepublic lately to see how the other side is reacting. I'm not trying to troll here - honestly - but if you feel I am, that's understandable. I just wanted to offer a perspective on this that I think may be interesting to some of you. Oh, and this is much longer than I intended. And I'm fairly certain I'm not posting this the right way...for which I apologize.
When Bush was elected in 2000, I was upset. And yes, I whined about him "stealing" the election. I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing. Gore seemed like he didn't really want it.
When Bush won in 2004, I was absolutely devastated. I thought the world was going to end. I didn't think we should be in Iraq, I agreed with Kerry that we had to finish the fight in Afganistan. I was worried about the courts. And frankly - I just didn't like Bush. I didn't like the way he governed, the way he spoke, and the way he talked as if we on the left were less American.
On 9/11 I happened to be in Toronto on business. When the towers fell, I knew I had to get home. A colleague and I wanted to go to New York, to help in some way. But we were told nobody was getting anywhere close. Our next instinct was to get home - to California. We didn't just want to be with our families, we desperately wanted to be in our country. That day was rough because my colleague thought his wife might have been on one of the planes - her travel plans were very similar. It took hours of agony before we, thank God, found out she was safe.
So we rented a car in Toronto and drove across the country. It took a couple hours to get across the border in the middle of the night. We stopped in Omaha, and then Colorado. I can't even tell you how much I loved my country driving across its beauty in those days after the attacks. And there were no jokes about "we're in enemy territory" because we were in "red states." We were in America. Everywhere we went people said "How are you? Is everyone safe?"
I know everyone has similar stories of those days. And certainly many, many people have stories of real loss - not just "we thought we lost someone, but it was a happy ending." Then, fairly quickly, I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back. I didn't think Iraq was the right choice - it made no sense to me, and I certainly wasn't alone. But people questioned my love of my country. And that was very, very hard to forgive.
When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united. I inititally supported Hilary, but I had this feeling in my gut that she was just going to be Bush - but for our side. She'd be a partisan warrior, a polarizing figure (which Bush wasn't when he started, but Hilary already was...). It made me sick to my stomach.
I wanted to go back to feeling like an American in those days after the attack - where our disagreements were things we laughed about over a beer and the real threat was far, far more serious.
I'd written Obama's candidacy off as a dry run for 2016 or later. Or maybe he was running for VP. I thought - hey, dude, at least finish a term in the Senate. Then when he said "we're not a collection of red states and blue states, we're the United States of America" it hit me like lightning. It had nothing to do with him - it had to do with the country, and my love for it and this feeling deep down in my gut that we were fighting over the placement of the deck chairs while the ship was sinking.
Wow, this got really rambly. Sorry about that. Here's why I posted initially. I saw this thing on here about Obama's "national defense force" and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I'm pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police. I mean - are you guys really worried he's going to do this? There was a rumor on the left that Bush was bringing a military brigade trained in "riot control" home from Iraq before the elections. People were convinced Bush was going to take over the country in a military coup. I'm sure you think that's laughable - as do I. Obama is not going to raise a civilian force of brown coats. First of all there's no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he'd be laughed out of the White House.
He's also not a socialist. And he's not coming for your guns. If he did either of this things, he can basically just go home now. Those are not realistic positions for any president to have. He will likely appoint liberals - at least too liberal for you guys - to the courts.
But here's the thing. He's going to try and be a good president. I think they all do. And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan. That's sort of ALL he ran on. It's how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters. So if he doesn't deliver on this - I imagine he'll be fairly easy to beat in 2012.
So that's my two cents. Obama was always going to get my vote as the nominee because I'm a lifelong democrat and a liberal. But I'm not a socialist or a pacifist. I believe in the 2nd amendment and favor the idea of most issues being decided by the states. I'm not a religious man, but I respect those who are and I think the Dems over reach in pushing religion out of the public square. I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much.
And here's another caveat. I know it's easier to be bipartisan and talk about "togetherness" when my guy won. I was where you guys are now in 2000 and 2004. I mean, my party ALMOST ran Howard Dean and then said "No wait! John Kerry is a much better idea!" Or in this election to have a friend say "You've GOT to read Alec Baldwin's latest piece on HuffPo." I mean...really? He doesn't count as an "Obamacon" you know, he only plays a republican on TV...(you guys ever notice that our most annoying Hollywood liberals end up playing republicans? what's with that?)
So yeah - we've all spent some time in the woods. I just hope we can all agree that we're just as American as the other, and we're passionate about what we believe to be the right path to take. There are real problems with the economy, and Islamic Terrorists aren't going to take a vacation for four years.
That's about it I guess. Sorry you guys lost.
At least you have developed that much intellectual honesty. If you do want to change the rules to 'popular vote wins' then you are one of two things; very ignorant of the founding of this country or you don't give a rat's patoot about the principles it was founded upon.
“When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united.”
I think that’s the most accurate statement you made and is/was the single most powerful motivator of the electorate. “We” (I can’t speak for everyone here and don’t pretend to, it’s just shorthand) are dismayed that that’s as far as your thinking goes.
Conservatives are a pretty angry lot now, but they have been for quite a while. While garnering a degree of admiration for the WOT, SCOTUS appointments, and protecting the US from further terror attacks post 9/11, GW was pure poison to conservatives for the out of control spending, rabid government growth, and the attempted erasure of the border.
Nobody here will agree with you that 0bama is not a socialist. Or that he isn’t after private gun ownership. Nobody. If you deny he is/is for those things, you are saying that none of his many, many repeated statements and/or actions mean anything; The great majority of his actions over the years demonstrate those tendencies with remarkable consistency. Which would mean either you believe he is a total liar or you believe that being a total liar and a smooth yet total bullshi**er doesn’t matter. Or that you like being lied to. Nobody here can support that, even if there is a brightly colored but very hazy palette of diversity, inclusiveness, tolerance, propserity based upon wealth redistribution, and general kumbayah on every level. At best, we find it non-substantive and naive, at worst we find it a toxic mix of BS akin to Jim Jone’s Kool-Aid, reminiscent of dozens of instances from history right before tyrranical regimes of several types took over.
“We” look at those lessons from history and find plenty to be alarmed about with this guy. It’s not his skin color or even that we lost. It’s this specific guy, what he has to be taken as standing for judging by his words and deeds and history, and the tremendous gulf we see between those facts and his altruistic-sounding but empty words. That a massively one-sided propaganda and intimidation campaign NEVER seen in the country and reminiscent of Josef Goebbles or 60’s-70’s Pravda took in so many only adds to our concern.
“
We don’t care about Obama, we know who he is.
“
That’s why we fear him.
But apparently some major Obama supporters realize they don’t know
who/what Obama is...but they don’t care that he’s a “nowhere man”.
See post 136 this thread.
This whole election, after hearing that Charlie Rose/Tom Brokaw interchange
(we don’t know who Obama is or what he thinks) and hearing Larry Kudlow
on CNBC struggling to get McCain to explain why his economic plan
made sense and Obama’s didn’t...
it reminds me of an old saying:
“Democrats fear voters WILL UNDERSTAND what they are going to do...
and Republicans fear votes WON’T UNDERSTAND what they are going to do.”
Ahhh, but alas, the damage is already done.
The cow has left the barn. The fraudsters have done their damage.
It will be hard for them to make things much worst..... and the economy will likely improve slightly over the next four years.
Then again, if Obama carries out his desired policies and lets the nefarious forces of jihad get their way.... we could be heading toward a new dark ages as oil supplies get cut off and nuclear missiles start flying.
you are alive & living in a free country without further attacks on our soil because GWB WAS the president
Lets see if we can say that in 4 years
I wouldn’t expect much change. The Big Deal was the election but that’s history now and the big bad world is still out there. At the moment there are no fresh voices. Pres Obama can appoint all the Panthers and Weather and SDS he can find who are still semi-coherent anymore and that would fill a phonebooth. Might be a new stageplay for a couple months, but the actors are the same old hacks.
It's not about us.
It's the great American Experiment that lost.
Hm, thank you. I mean for the different viewpoint and for the optimism.
You mentioned that Obama ran on a platform of Bipartisanship and Togetherness/Unity. However, history shows that he is not bipartisan (historically McCain has done a LOT more “reaching across the aisle”); just look at his vote on the Human Cloning ban, he was the ONLY person who voted against it. (and that was a true bipartisan issue, and not a matter like Roe v. Wade wherein a prior ‘precedence’ could be cited as an reason.)
A friend of mine says he saw the election as win/win, and he thinks, like you, that things will be good. I disagree, but I also disagree with the folks who think that he can single-handedly destroy the country... the only way for that to happen would be for him to do something monumentally stupid; like trying to repeal the 2nd amendment or authorize the taking of people’s 401ks *AND* “We the people” don’t put our foot down for the obvious breach of contract. (the us constitution.)
It’s unfortunate that political campaigns always end up being run like sports contests, where everybody on each side is pressured to adopt the attitude that it will be an unspeakable disaster if the other side wins. Obama shows no sign of being anything but a generic Democrat President in a different shade.
Agree, the guy is a troll slingling BS. We have had quite a few since the election, most are a lot worse than this guy.
Neither was Lenin or that guy in Germany, whatsis name, who liked dogs and babies. Everyone thinks of themselves as goodwilled, FRiend, and that's the problem.
Traviswf - I know exactly how you felt about the USA on 9/11.
I was overseas too, and saw how foreigners were laughing, making light of it, blaming the USA, etc...
Imagine my surprise then when I found Obama’s pastor, spoke brazenly about the subject - more than once! That alone didn’t put me over the edge with Obama - it was his whole infatuation with socialism.
Appreciate yr. clear comments regardless, but if Obama does not govern as a leftist (is there a chance of that?) then he will at least have my respect.
Obama promised everything to everybody! When one of his supporters stands there and thinks Obama is paying her mortgage AND filling her gas tank...that’s utter nonsense.
Did people not THINK when they voted for him? Are people that stupid to think he’s going to fix all that’s wrong with America?
He’s on the record of supporting abortion. That’s not even up for discussion.
And the way the left treated Bush for the last 8 years is unforgivable. How can Obama bring us “together” and unite us after calling republicans names for 2 years?
He cheated (ACORN) and took illegal donations. What if McCain had done this? The press would have been all over him!
Check back in a couple of months and let us know how you feel then.
“Most of us respect the office of the POTUS, even if we don’t like the person holding it.”
With a Muslim sitting in the Oval Office...No can do.
Iraq was the crossroads of terrorism;False. Most of the intelligence that supported this was gained from a source codenamed "Curveball." He was a drunk and a liar. It turns out that he had just been a cab driver in Baghdad and knew nothing of the operations of Saddam's regime.
Sadaam was choking the very life out of the entire country.Almost true. Iraq was dying due to sanctions, and those sanctions weren't going to go away until Saddam did.
Hundreds of thousands were murdered in gas chambersWhat? You are confusing Iraq and Nazi Germany.
the Baath party crushed all dissenters100% true.
and many known and notable terrorists deemed just as dangerous as Bin Laden were being granted asylum and continued to plot our downfall, as well as that of our alliesName one.
Excellent, fair, and true post.
And I suppose you think the "corporately biased" media were more than fair and balanced this election. Hope you read this and reply but I have my doubts so I'll end my post here.
So you voted for Hussein and you have the nerve to insult us by saying "Sorry you guys lost"?
Am I the only one who sees the complete insincerity, bogus concern and insulting condescension there? Take your bottomless pit of phony compassion and your self-admitted hatred of Pres Bush elsewhere!
Bye troll.
Iraq was the country which issued many of the visas and passports used in the World Trade Center attacks!!!
The 1993 ATTACKS!!!
This is a good way to win big bets in a bar or something as most people assume by WTC attacks you're talking about 9/11.
When in reality, several of the terrorists fled back to Iraq after the Blind Sheik and his cabal of Mosque buddies attacked in February of 1993.
Check it out libs, if you don't believe me.
It always drives me nuts when Democrats claim Iraq had nothing to do with the WTC attacks, when in fact Iraq DID have something to do.... with the FIRST ATTACKS.
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