Posted on 11/07/2008 10:40:35 AM PST by Traviswf
Hi there. I voted for Obama, but have been reading a lot of Freerepublic lately to see how the other side is reacting. I'm not trying to troll here - honestly - but if you feel I am, that's understandable. I just wanted to offer a perspective on this that I think may be interesting to some of you. Oh, and this is much longer than I intended. And I'm fairly certain I'm not posting this the right way...for which I apologize.
When Bush was elected in 2000, I was upset. And yes, I whined about him "stealing" the election. I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing. Gore seemed like he didn't really want it.
When Bush won in 2004, I was absolutely devastated. I thought the world was going to end. I didn't think we should be in Iraq, I agreed with Kerry that we had to finish the fight in Afganistan. I was worried about the courts. And frankly - I just didn't like Bush. I didn't like the way he governed, the way he spoke, and the way he talked as if we on the left were less American.
On 9/11 I happened to be in Toronto on business. When the towers fell, I knew I had to get home. A colleague and I wanted to go to New York, to help in some way. But we were told nobody was getting anywhere close. Our next instinct was to get home - to California. We didn't just want to be with our families, we desperately wanted to be in our country. That day was rough because my colleague thought his wife might have been on one of the planes - her travel plans were very similar. It took hours of agony before we, thank God, found out she was safe.
So we rented a car in Toronto and drove across the country. It took a couple hours to get across the border in the middle of the night. We stopped in Omaha, and then Colorado. I can't even tell you how much I loved my country driving across its beauty in those days after the attacks. And there were no jokes about "we're in enemy territory" because we were in "red states." We were in America. Everywhere we went people said "How are you? Is everyone safe?"
I know everyone has similar stories of those days. And certainly many, many people have stories of real loss - not just "we thought we lost someone, but it was a happy ending." Then, fairly quickly, I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back. I didn't think Iraq was the right choice - it made no sense to me, and I certainly wasn't alone. But people questioned my love of my country. And that was very, very hard to forgive.
When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united. I inititally supported Hilary, but I had this feeling in my gut that she was just going to be Bush - but for our side. She'd be a partisan warrior, a polarizing figure (which Bush wasn't when he started, but Hilary already was...). It made me sick to my stomach.
I wanted to go back to feeling like an American in those days after the attack - where our disagreements were things we laughed about over a beer and the real threat was far, far more serious.
I'd written Obama's candidacy off as a dry run for 2016 or later. Or maybe he was running for VP. I thought - hey, dude, at least finish a term in the Senate. Then when he said "we're not a collection of red states and blue states, we're the United States of America" it hit me like lightning. It had nothing to do with him - it had to do with the country, and my love for it and this feeling deep down in my gut that we were fighting over the placement of the deck chairs while the ship was sinking.
Wow, this got really rambly. Sorry about that. Here's why I posted initially. I saw this thing on here about Obama's "national defense force" and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I'm pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police. I mean - are you guys really worried he's going to do this? There was a rumor on the left that Bush was bringing a military brigade trained in "riot control" home from Iraq before the elections. People were convinced Bush was going to take over the country in a military coup. I'm sure you think that's laughable - as do I. Obama is not going to raise a civilian force of brown coats. First of all there's no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he'd be laughed out of the White House.
He's also not a socialist. And he's not coming for your guns. If he did either of this things, he can basically just go home now. Those are not realistic positions for any president to have. He will likely appoint liberals - at least too liberal for you guys - to the courts.
But here's the thing. He's going to try and be a good president. I think they all do. And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan. That's sort of ALL he ran on. It's how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters. So if he doesn't deliver on this - I imagine he'll be fairly easy to beat in 2012.
So that's my two cents. Obama was always going to get my vote as the nominee because I'm a lifelong democrat and a liberal. But I'm not a socialist or a pacifist. I believe in the 2nd amendment and favor the idea of most issues being decided by the states. I'm not a religious man, but I respect those who are and I think the Dems over reach in pushing religion out of the public square. I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much.
And here's another caveat. I know it's easier to be bipartisan and talk about "togetherness" when my guy won. I was where you guys are now in 2000 and 2004. I mean, my party ALMOST ran Howard Dean and then said "No wait! John Kerry is a much better idea!" Or in this election to have a friend say "You've GOT to read Alec Baldwin's latest piece on HuffPo." I mean...really? He doesn't count as an "Obamacon" you know, he only plays a republican on TV...(you guys ever notice that our most annoying Hollywood liberals end up playing republicans? what's with that?)
So yeah - we've all spent some time in the woods. I just hope we can all agree that we're just as American as the other, and we're passionate about what we believe to be the right path to take. There are real problems with the economy, and Islamic Terrorists aren't going to take a vacation for four years.
That's about it I guess. Sorry you guys lost.
Yea, that is why he picked a hard core Democrat hack to be Chief of Staff.
Go spew your 0bama adulation at KOS.
This is a Conservative forum, not an 0bama excuse forum. Pssh. and IBTZ
Thank you for your views, which seem relatively honest. You seem to know about what Senator Obama’s views are not. Perhaps you can explain to us what his core views are? What principles does he steadfastly espouse?
Your right Mr. Obama is not a socialist...he's a Marxist....and
Sometimes it takes a Carter ( Mr. Obama) to get a Reagan (Yet unknown future candidate).
In closing let me add....(unlike you were willing to do for Bush) I graciously accept Mr. Obama as the President of my United States of America...
However I will not give up my free right to disagree (without Hate unlike your side) with a President who puts forth plans to redistribute my hard earned money to someone who neither has the inclination to sacrifice or desire to make their lives better through there own sweat and toil.
That sir is Marxism......I suggest you do your homework........and one more thing, I image you assumed you wouldn't be one of those whose wealth was going to be redistributed.......unfortunately, you are in no position to decide that now are you?...at least until 2010...when your taxes will go up since the Bush tax cuts are due to expire then.... regardless of Mr. Obama's promises to the contrary.
You might want to rethink your loyalties to your precious Democrats and consider that it would be better placed if it was your country you were loyal to instead. Blind loyalty to a party affiliation regardless of substance is a great way to be lead down a tunnel to nowhere fast. Just read about the Jews from Germany just before Hitler came to power.....and by the way the happy community organizers who helped secure Hitler's power in Germany were called "Brownshirts"....before they became the "SS".
Sorry Travis, Obama will get all the respect from me that Bush got. At least Bush believed in life, free markets, securing American soil.
I wasn’t a Bush fan, or a Mccain fan. I think Obama will bring this country down.
And ya’ll picked a black man to do it. That way when the reality of the coming socialist misery happens, you can blame black folks.
Nice try, traviswf, You are not going to get your unity. Conservatives find communists repugnant.
You’re not realistic.
We are at war with Wahabi Islam, not Iraq, nor Afganistan. They have been at war with all that worship God for 1300 years, and will not surrender until either the last Wahabist is dead, or the last Christian and Jew. This is something that we cannot change; we must conquer or be conquered.
Obama has already surrendered. This fact can only increase the flow of blood, as the Islamists are now encouraged by his weakness and ignorance.
In addition, he has advocated the economic policies of Soviet Russia, which are already in the process of melting down our economy, and with it, those of the rest of the free world.
This is the Obama Legacy.
Beautiful. Keep FReeping!
And you say that, based on what, exactly?
Your gut feel?
Our rejection of Obama is based on his record, like voting to prosecute a man for using an illegal handgun (the law making his handgun illegal has since been repealed in the wake of Heller) to defend his own family from an intruder in his own home !!!!
And you tell us we should just trust this joker?
Hell will freeze over, first.
Such a pity that so many morons didn't know that we were just buying time in the culture war by holding our noses for a moderate with the possiblity of getting a Conservative VP. I hope you enjoy the new lovely leftist extremism because it will likely not be overturned in our lifetime....much less four years from now. We don't have the old political playing field any longer.
Here is your opposition coming at you like a freight train. Watch it and weep...
What in the Sam Hill is this steaming pile of liberal “the first day of my summer vacation” thread STILL doing in our forum?
Do you have any idea how childishly naive you sound?
How would he be "easily defeated in 2012" if he has achieved his objective of silencing all other points of view, thereby making the Pollyanna optimists like you that much easier to manipulate?
I hope you're happy living like an animal in the zoo, because that's what you've helped set in motion.
The zoo keeper is responsible for all of your needs, and it's sort of like freedom--especially if you never experienced true freedom. Besides, the slightest indication you aren't content will only get you quarantined with the other bad trouble maker animals or hit with the cattle prod.
Enjoy your Brave New World.
Drive-by troll.
Thanks for the thoughtful post Travis. Let me counter with my perspective and philosophy.
“Uniting” the country is hard. Involving politicians makes it damn near impossible. They all want to unite under their vision and their power. 9/11 united us because events overtook politicians, and they had to react and respond, rather than posture and preen.
In my opinion, the Democrats’ idea of us uniting is to have us conservatives cave-in on our values and beliefs, and to adopt theirs. That’s not going to happen.
Another big difference is the value I place on individuality. Individual freedom, individual responsbility, etc. I don’t want to be known as part of a larger group. I contrast this with the Democrats who see themselves first through group identity (black, hispanic, gay, feminist, whatever).
I want lower taxes, fewer mandates, smaller government, and fewer intrusions into our lives. I resent (yes, resent) politicians who attain power by a promise to confiscate my earnings in order to bestow it upon their favored constituents.
That’s not to say I’m greedy - I give generously to charitable causes of MY choosing. At least I did (and will) until I see how I’m impacted by a new tax plan.
I’m vehemently against those Democrats that waved the flag and gave glorious speeches in the wake of 9/11, and then abandoned our President and troops when the going got tough. The time for 2nd thoughts was when they were voting to commit troops, not once we’d engaged our enemies. It is and was shameful the way they dumped on Bush, Rumsfield, Powell, Rice, our Generals in-theater, and the troops in general. There was a time when the political opposition would bite their tongues while we had our military deployed (excepting, of course, those that at the courage to rail against action in advance - at least they were being consistent).
What I’ve seen over the past 6 to 7 years coming from the left has been a disgrace. They say they want unity; bi-partisanship; collegial relations; reaching across the aisle. Bull-feathers! I judge on actions, not words. What I saw was a raw, no-holds-barred grab for power.
Enough of my rant. I don’t doubt that you mean well. I don’t doubt that you want a better America. I don’t doubt that you were and are inspired by Obama. What I doubt is that the failed tax-and-spend policies of the left will suddenly begin to work. Socialism didn’t fail around the world because it was the wrong people implementing it - it failed because it kills human spirit. It kills incentive. It tells people that we’re all equal, when clearly we’re not (and haven’t been since the dawn of man). Without incentive, innovation dies. Without incentive, industry dies. Without incentive, America’s place at the top of historical human freedom and achievement is done.
Obama will be my President too. I will pray for him, and I will wish him well. I won’t compromise my values and beliefs for him, however. I do hope he will become a transformational figure; I do hope that the glass-ceiling he’s broken will make more people realize that the ability to achieve is within each of us, and not something you wait to receive; I do hope he’ll walk-the-walk, not just talk-the-talk. But, again, I’ll judge on actions, not words. While cautiously optimistic, I see nothing in his past to indicate he’s anything but an avowed leftist, and we’re in for a tough 4 years.
Traviswf - if you were in the White House and has some power, I would feel better. Your measured words offer comfort. But words are not enough.
Obama's an unknown. The MSM - being head over heels in love - didn't bother to vet him.
That's a problem.
Some of his life choices - Ayers - ACORN - Alinsky (and those are just the "A's" - speak of problems. We have reason to fear.
There's also reason for hope. Caroline Kennedy's not blind. McCain said he wasn't "dangerous". Obama's own words - he quotes Lincoln easily... We will wait... and see.
And for you Traviswf, if Obama turns out to be a totalitarian, will you switch and side with us? If he makes that power grab we fear, can we count on you?
If Bush had been your worst nightmare - pulled a military coup, I would have stood with you. If Obama is our worst totalitarian nightmare, will you do the same - and stand with us?
I don’t think you are a troll but I do think you are incredibly naive, governed by your feelings and a case in point that better men than you must sacrifice to keep you out of chains.
Well said!
Obama was elected by the most ignorant, greedy, self-obsessed, undereducated and pathetically arrogant fools that ever disgraced a polling station. And they won't even remember who George Bush is within 4 months.
Truth be told i’m pure conservative and the thought of a Obama presidency makes my skin crawl due to his idealogy but i will respect your perspective and wish you well.
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