The Coming Second Civil War

quesney | quesney

[Dead Corpse]

meh... I'm in MN. Morons up here still have Wellstone stickers on their bumpers.

That might be quasi-fascist/socialists, but they ain't the riotin' type.

[archy]

Insane ain’t it !

It brings three immediate thoughts to my mind, the first being that these are those *interesting times* that the Chinese had in mind when they came up with that curse, may you live in interesting times.

The second is that these are times when real friendships will count for more than usual, between old friends and lifelong neighbors, old military pals and family, and a sprinkling of new ones added in.

The third is that Woody Woodpecker is running things. The early Walt Lantz version, not the later/tamer United Artists version. Woo woo!

[archy]

meh... I'm in MN. Morons up here still have Wellstone stickers on their bumpers.

Heh! You happen to know where MO governor Mel Carnahan's plane happened to hit?

[Squantos]

I vote on Numbah 1 and 2......:o)

Albeit a lot of holes in most explanations of late !

Stay safe Archy !

[Dead Corpse]

You happen to know where MO governor Mel Carnahan's plane happened to hit?

There's a joke in there, but with things being what they are I'm not gonna risk my account here.

Kind of a sad statement there...

[archy]

You happen to know where MO governor Mel Carnahan's plane happened to hit?

There's a joke in there, but with things being what they are I'm not gonna risk my account here.

Kind of a sad statement there...

It's not a joke, and not particularly funny, though somewhat ironic.

The plane came to earth right near the backyard of the house of the mother of the fella who wrote this book.

[archy]

meh... I'm in MN. Morons up here still have Wellstone stickers on their bumpers. That might be quasi-fascist/socialists, but they ain't the riotin' type.

Maybe not most of them. But I recall that high school kid up north in Beltrami County in 2005 who killed what, eight or ten others and himself?

I suspect psychotropic drugs more than toxic politics, but the age group was about right, and as I recall there were some real bent influences in that kid's life. As there are with many, many others....

[archy]

There is allegedly a Chinese saying that you can conquer a country on horseback, but you can't rule it on horseback.

Pretty close: The aphorism dates to the Yuan Dynasty occupatrion of China by Kublai Khan, grandson of Temujin, the Gengiz Khan.

However, if you do not particularly care if you rule a conquered country or city, you can deal with it in the manner of another of Temujin's grandsons, Hulagu Khan, who conquered and occupied Baghdad in 1258. After the Mongols spent a week of massacre, looting, rape, and general destruction. The Grand Library of Baghdad, containing countless precious historical documents and books on subjects ranging from medicine to astronomy, was destroyed. Survivors said that the waters of the Tigris ran black with ink from the enormous quantities of books flung into the river.

Citizens attempted to flee, but were intercepted by Mongol soldiers who killed with abandon. Martin Sicker writes that close to 90,000 people may have died. Other estimates go much higher. Wassaf claims the loss of life was several hundred thousand. Ian Frazier of The New Yorker says estimates of the death toll have ranged from 200,000 to a million.

The deposed Abbasid caliph was captured and forced to watch as his citizens were murdered and his treasury plundered. According to most accounts, the caliph was killed by trampling. The Mongols rolled the caliph up in a rug, and rode their horses over him, as they believed that the earth was offended if touched by royal blood. All but one of his sons were killed, and the sole surviving son was sent to Mongolia.

The death toll was so complete that Hulagu had to move his camp upwind of the city, due to the stench of decay from the ruined city. The destruction of Baghdad was to some extent a military tactic: it was supposed to convince other cities and rulers to surrender without a fight. Baghdad was a depopulated, ruined city for several centuries and only gradually recovered some of its former glory.

"Iraq in 1258 was very different from present day Iraq. Its agriculture was supported by canal networks thousands of years old. Baghdad was one of the most brilliant intellectual centers in the world. The Mongol destruction of Baghdad was a psychological blow from which Islam never recovered. Already Islam was turning inward, becoming more suspicious of conflicts between faith and reason and more conservative. With the sack of Baghdad, the intellectual flowering of Islam was snuffed out. Imagining the Athens of Pericles and Aristotle obliterated by a nuclear weapon begins to suggest the enormity of the blow. The Mongols filled in the irrigation canals and left Iraq too depopulated to restore them." (Steven Dutch)

"They swept through the city like hungry falcons attacking a flight of doves, or like raging wolves attacking sheep, with loose reins and shameless faces, murdering and spreading terror...beds and cushions made of gold and encrusted with jewels were cut to pieces with knives and torn to shreds. Those hiding behind the veils of the great Harem were dragged...through the streets and alleys, each of them becoming a plaything...as the population died at the hands of the invaders." (Abdullah Wassaf as cited by David Morgan)

Causes for agricultural decline

Some historians believe that the Mongol invasion destroyed much of the irrigation infrastructure that had sustained Mesopotamia for many millennia. Canals were cut as a military tactic and never repaired. So many people died or fled that neither the labor nor the organization were sufficient to maintain the canal system. It broke down or silted up. This theory was advanced by historian Svatopluk Souček in his 2000 book, A History of Inner Asia and has been adopted by authors such as Steven Dutch.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Schaumann shot Bobrikov three times . . . then shot himself twice, sparing himself interrogation by Russian Okhrana secret police torture.

It just goes to show that even Finnish assassins are more logical than those of otherr nations.

[JoeFromSidney]

thanks for the info. Amazing what you can learn on this forum.

[redgolum]

For later

[archy]

Schaumann shot Bobrikov three times . . . then shot himself twice, sparing himself interrogation by Russian Okhrana secret police torture.

It just goes to show that even Finnish assassins are more logical than those of otherr nations.

I think I'd have said *practical* rather than logical. But not surprisingly, the Finn Aktivisti had a backup plan in place: had Schaumann's effort failed, Lennart Hohenthal was in prepared to follow Schauman's plan via rifle fire, using reduced-power [and thus less noisy] cartridges.

An other National Hero of Finland, an university student LENNART HOHENTHAL, was made all the necessary preparations for a physical elimination of Bobrikov. He was hired a room with an un-obstacled view to the route from Bobrikov's residence to the governor-general's office. Hohenthal was equipped with a rifle and some handloaded cartridges -- presumably charged with a small dose of the "bluepowder" and a lead bullet. Lennart Hohenthal planned to escape after his deed, without an intention of the "Kamikaze assault". Therefore he was forced to avoid an alarming noise of his planned fatal shots.

Eugen Schauman had, however, a more suitable official position - as an accountant in the Board of Schools. He could meet Bobrikov in a staircase of the Senate House..! Distance of his pistol shots was less than three meters..! Deputy executioner L. Hohenthal eliminated somewhat later the Finnish General Procurator (i.e. Attorney General), a traitor Eliel Soisalon-Soininen -- but with a handgun. He was caught by Okhrana, but escaped with assistance of some other activists. He exiled to Sweden and died there after a long unnoticed life - not so many decades ago - as a forgotten and almost unknown Finnish freedom fighter: "SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI !"

[patriot preacher]

The will be no Civil War. There is not enough widespread guts left to fight one. There is nothing equivalent to the Antebellum south infrastructure to support one. There may be some more violence, but that is about it.

The Antebellum South didn’t have the infrastructure to support a war either — that’s why we LOST! But, the times they are a changin’.

Keep your powder dry! ;-)

[Anti-Bubba182]

Ultimately the insufficient infrastructure was fatal, but the South could obtain some equivalents to the North's technology such as ironclads and had enough men and arms to put up a serious fight.

All that could be done now against the modern army would be guerrilla warfare and that is the fantasy of militia kooks and isolated nutcake killers like Tim McVeigh.