Posted on 09/02/2008 3:13:16 AM PDT by Pistolshot
Free Republic Gun Club – Tuesday – Pocket Pistols!!!!!!
Morning. Today’s FRGC article is about those misunderstood, mouse guns. The smallish pocket 22’s, 25’s, 32’s, 380’s. I will limit the discussion around these calibers and to the revolver/autos available, simply because once you get outside this range you get into larger, holster-necessary type of firearms. I am also not dismissing the derringer type of weapons, but that is another category entirely.
The mouse guns have a good/bad history. Generally, of the smaller calibers, they have the drawback of effectiveness or lack thereof. I carry a pocket pistol in a variety of calibers, from 22 to the .380, it really depends on dress for the day. As with all CCW weapons available, make sure you are proficient with the firearm you carry. Practice with pocket guns is even more necessary, IMHO, simply because the sights are rudimentary at best, and totally useless at worst. Remember, you are carrying a less effective cartridge and any confrontation will be an iffy thing. But, any gun is better than a hand, knife or fist.
I will give a nod to the PM Kahrs. The micro size in 9mm, 40 S&W, and even the PM45 can be considered in the ‘Pocket’ category.
The PM9/40 is by far the smallest of the pocket pistols in a major caliber. Literally the same size as many 380’s it carries the power for self defense at the cost of number of rounds. Something to consider.
The PM45 is slightly larger and is limited to a 5+1 capacity. Having looked one over (finally) I would choose it over the 9 for certain occasions.
So let’s get into the mouse guns, the ones you can put in a front pocket like a set of keys and not even know it’s there. Since I mentioned the Kahr, let’s look at their newest entry into the small pistol market. The Kahr P380. Even smaller than the PM series, the P380 is the size of the Kel-Tec 380/Ruger LCP. The polymer frame makes it light and pocketable. The DA only action makes it extremely safe and reliable. One thing about the Kahrs, appealing to me, is the way the slide is mated to the frame. There is a steel block towards the rear of the slide and the front rides on 2 steel rods in the dust cover, offering a larger area of control and lockup for the barrel. One to consider for pocket carry.
Moving on, let’s look at the KelTec32/380. These are very popular with police as a backup, individual professionals, motorcyclists, and for women. The polymer frame and size make it ideal to carry in a purse or pocket. For police, most of them carry it in the pouch in the front of the vest they wear. There have been reports of reliability problems with the .380 version, but I have nothing to substantiate the claims. The ones we have sold have been reliable and not really brought in for trade.
The Ruger LCP is almost a clone of the KelTec, and some of us are of the opinion that there may be a copyright or patent issue the two are so similar in construction.
North American Arms makes a huge variety of stainless steel pistols and revolvers for pocket carry. They are some of my favorites and are extremely popular with just about everyone. I carry a couple of different ones. First, the mini-revolvers. 5-shot in calibers from 22 Short to 22 Magnum, the NAA minis are pocket revolvers in the extreme. Grips are tiny and hardly manageable if firing, BUT , with these grips installed, they are as manageable as any other firearm.
The pocket from NAA I carry on occasion is the Guardian. Manufactured in 25, 32, 32NAA, and 380, the guardian is a reliable, stainless pocket gun. The 32 NAA cartridge is a 380 case necked down to 32. The verdict is still out on the effectiveness of this one.
Berreta makes a number of pocket autos and has some that have a distinct advantage, the pop-up barrel.
A few weeks ago, a young lady came in with her daughter and a revolver to trade. She could not pull the trigger on the older Charter Arms and was looking to trade for something her arthritis could handle. With the tip-up barrel, and in .32, the Tomcat was the answer for her. She was able to handle the trigger and the loading and it will still be a reliable and effective defensive handgun for her and her daughter. 
Lastly, for me, is the LWS Seecamp. Possibly the Cadillac of pocket pistols. Exquisitely made, the Seecamp in stainless has one of the best DA trigger pulls in the pocket arena. It is also priced that way. But you get the highest quality in a performance pistol you can get.
How could I end this introduction without mentioning the AMT backup? In 380 caliber, the Backup was one of the first true pocket pistols that exhibited the features of the mouse guns. Small in size and caliber, this little gem is still a popular choice in pocket pistols. Now out of production, the Backup is still available in used, and almost new condition from gun dealers. We get them in trade on occasion and they might last a week. If you are looking for a good reliable 380 pistol, at a decent price, the Backup could be for you.
Well, there you have it from me to start the thread for the day. Pocket pistols are rapidly becoming a favorite for carry or backup. As I said in the beginning, pocket pistols should be considered if the weather you live in might require something smaller to carry, or you have special requirements that necessitate a smaller type of firearm. Potency, as always, depends on shot placement, and with the mouse-guns, it’s far more important. Something to remember.
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I don't carry it. I've been carrying a Ruger SP101. I would rather have 5 rounds of 357 magnum in a handgun that's 100% reliable than 15 rounds in something I can't trust.
I also couldn't sell it to anyone knowing that it's a lemon. Right now it's only fit for use as a paperweight.
I sent an e-mail to Kahr asking for a return authorization. I know of several people who ended up exchanging the PM40s for the steelframe versions. They don't seem to have nearly as many problems. I've also known a few who got a refund.
I really like the way the PM40 fits my hand. It has a very natural aimpoint for me and it conceals easily. I spent about $200 on accessories for the PM40, so I'm not ready to give up on it yet. I would consider an exchange for a steel framed version.
I have a PM40 and I’ve been very disappointed by its performance. I’ve never been able to go more than one or mags without a failure to feed. I don’t carry it because I simply have no confidence in its ability to protect me and my loved ones. I need something reliable and the PM40 ain’t it.
I carry my P3AT in an IWB holster, but I keep it between the belt and waistband. It's easy to cover it using just a t-shirt or Hawaiian shirt. I don't even notice it.
I agree with XeniaSt about a pocket holster. I was carrying my P3AT in my jeans once and went to pull it out and my keys had lodged in trigger guard. One good tug and it could have discharged.
The pocket holster covers the trigger, protects the weapon from lint and dirt, and keeps it position so it's easier to draw.
Took care of the fail to return to battery.
Yours is one of the most common problems I have heard of with the 40. Not sure if it's the performance of the cartridge or the gun itself. I do know a lot of the PD's are going to S&W or anything but the Glock becasue of performance problems.
If you have talked to the Customer Service dept at Kahr, you might want to send it back to them for a once over.
In my 20 years experience as an NRA certified Instructor, unless your pocket is full of brush like you've been low crawling through the woods, it's not much of an issue with a modern firearm. A lot of hammerless revolvers address this directly. I happen to own one: Model 642 S&W and I've never had any such issue. But I also keep it in a Mika pocket holster so that it stays oriented in my front pocket for a smooth presentation should it become necessary.
In my 20 years experience as an NRA certified Instructor, unless your pocket is full of brush like you've been low crawling through the woods, it's not much of an issue with a modern firearm. A lot of hammerless revolvers address this directly. I happen to own one: Model 642 S&W and I've never had any such issue. But I also keep it in a Mika pocket holster so that it stays oriented in my front pocket for a smooth presentation should it become necessary.
I’ve carried my “Casulls Improvement” Freedom Firearms Belt gun in 22 LR in my front pocket for backup to my Colt Model 80 45acp for decades now... it has never failed me.
My NAA rides in the pocket holster available from NAA, it's pretty slick and just the thing for when I am wearing really lightweight shorts.
I picked this up a few years ago because it similar to one my dad had bought for my mom. The original box was with it with a price tag of $36.50. I paid over $300 for it. LOL!
Only drawback I have on the 25's is the price of the ammo.
I haven't been able to find after-market magazines for the Kahr. I know one of them is messed up because it hangs up in the pistol and I have to mess with it to get it out. I've tried three different types of ammo and all of them have the same problem.
I'm going to send it back to the factory and hope they can do something with it. If they get it working I'm considering selling it and buying a Sig or a compact Glock in 40 S&W. I spent the same amount for the Kahr as I did my Sig P239 and the Sig is a great weapon.
Don't let my wife know that I'm thinking about getting another firearm. She thinks I have enough already.
Mom’s is a 25, in great condition and now with my brother. This one is a 22 so the ammo is relatively cheap. :o)
Note the size of the knife and flashlight...
Tiny, but VERY heavy: About the size of a Colt Mustang .380, but all steel. Kicks like a mule, but will shoot anything I've put through it with 100% reliability.
Mark
My favorite pocket pistols are the Walther PPK size in .380 and .22LR plus their copies and clones from other quality makers.
The gun I usually carry in my pocket when walking around my yard which is around 7 acres and is surrounded by woodlands and pastureland, is an old French Unique model L. It is a bit smaller than the PPK but has a slightly longer barrel. It is single action and has never jammed, ever. I couldn't count the number of rattlers, moccasins, rats, armadillos etc. it has accounted for. It is not a powerhouse but a .22LR is powerful enough for these pests. It is also powerful enough to deter a human in a pinch. I also am fond of the Hungarian copies which I have in both .22lR and .380. They have both been totally reliable and just as accurate as the Walthers.
I had a Walther TPH which was extraordinarily accurate and would have been the perfect "stick it in your pocket as you walk out the door", gun except it jammed regularly. It was an American made one and I always wondered if the German ones were better.
BTW, John Browning's favorite gun was the little .32 pocket pistol which he often put in his pocket and plinked around the hills of Ogden Utah. I guess he had enough money that the extra cost of .32 over .22 didn't bother him.
Really??
This is mine: 
.45 cal, 3" barrel
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