In the final tally, most of the territory of West Virginia, and half of the soldiers, were Confederate, which makes West Virginia the most Confederate of all the border states.
Posted on 07/15/2008 1:45:31 PM PDT by GOP_Raider
My point was that the author I read thought it was much more than a side light and that it was coordinated. In particular the author noted how Stuart fired a cannon before Pickett's charge to indicate he was in position and that after action reports made reference to Stuart's part of the attack as sweeping down a road to attack the Union forces (who were being attacked by Pickett)from the rear. However, it failed because Custer intervened.
This is not true.
Brown's supporters after-the-fact included the cream of New England's intellectuals and upper society. Thoreau, Emerson, Bryant -- all supported Brown, Thoreau in particularly bloodthirsty language. Walt Whitman was almost alone in his denunciation of Brown.
The South noticed. And that was the end of the Union.
What followed has been a sectional Empire founded on blood, money, and violence.
Southern States still can't hold an election, 43 years later, without "pre-clearance" from the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. How is that anything but abjection and humiliation? It certainly isn't the Union of Washington and Jefferson.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Sadly, all that was present from the beginning. You can't seriously portray the Civil War as a fall from Paradise, since there were some very unedenic elements in our country even before Lincoln.
"very unedenic elements"?
Say wha?
In the final tally, most of the territory of West Virginia, and half of the soldiers, were Confederate, which makes West Virginia the most Confederate of all the border states.
For some people, everything was wonderful before Lincoln and horrible afterwards.
The "Old Republic" certainly had its virtues, but it also had its weaknesses and its ugly side. I'm not attacking it, just saying that people shouldn't build up antebellum America to put later periods down.
In any event, if the Old Republic died, secession and the division of the country into two hostile blocs had a lot to do with it. After 1860 our history was going to be different, however things played out.
I was mainly interested in your word "unedenic," since neither my Websters' nor a google search produced a definition. The only reference to it I could find was something out of Tennessee Williams(!).
Then, slow witted as I am, I thought, well what about "edenic"? But "edenic" was also not there, however a shorter root, "Eden" was, and then slowly the light bulb comes on: Eden -> edenic -> unedenic. Oh, my...
OK...
If by "ugly side" you mean slavery, then of course. That problem was acknowledged by Thomas Jefferson in a draft of the Declaration of Independence, but was later removed to satisfy southerners.
It was again addressed with a compromise in the Constitution, and then with many other compromises before the Republican Revolution of 1860.
Jefferson and others had calculated how much it would cost the government just to buy up and free all the South's slaves. That number always seemed too astronomical, though turned out to be less than the cost in blood & treasure of the Civil War.
But I think Jefferson's exercise was pointless anyway, since the Old South was not going to give up her slaves without a fight, regardless.
It was a problem the "Old Republic" simply could not deal with, though I understand some have argued that in due time the Old South, on its own accord, would have abolished slavery. Somehow I doubt it.
So, how else was the "Old Republic" unedenic? No universal health care? No social security or unemployment insurance? Somehow I don't remember reading about those in "Old Eden." ;-)
I will be camping in West Virginia in a couple of weeks.
Some of us are from the South, others from the North.
Would we be better off pitching our tents in a confederate county, or a union country? ;-)
Well, I have given your considerable problem considerable thought. You haven’t told me where in the state you will be so I will offer suggestions. If you are in the eastern panhandle, Berkeley County would be your best bet. Berkeley voted against secession, yet gave most of its men to the Confederacy, so there is something for everyone there. If you are in the southwest, you can try Cabell, Wayne and Kanawha counties. Cabell & Wayne voted against secession, but were home to Jenkins Brigade, the largest CSA cavalry unit at Gettysburg, and the boys who burned Chambersburg, PA, in 1864. Kanawha County also voted against secessionn, but was home to Wise’s Legion, CSA, over 4000 men who were later sent to defend South Carolina. If you are in the southeast, you are inevitably in Confederate territory. If you are in the northwest, you are in Union territory. Though it should be said that even Wheeling gave a small band of Confederates, Shriver’s Grays. No matter where you are, I’m sure you’ll have a great time. Best wishes.
Anywhere along I-64, just two nights. Thanks.
You mentioned the burning of Chambersburg PA in 1964, not something I knew of.
It's a matter of interest -- in this day and age when civil wars typically produce 100 civilian deaths for every soldier killed -- to note that in burning Chambersburg, there was just one civilian death, plus five confederate soldiers.
Here is the report from Geneal Early to General Lee (all emphases added):
[TO:]"General Lee, Petersburg:
"On the 30th of July McCausland entered Chambersburg and, by my orders, demanded $100,000 in gold or $500,000 in Northern money as compensation for several houses of citizens of Jefferson County burned by order of Hunter, with directions, in default of payment, to burn the town.
The money was not paid, and the town was burned.
I alone am responsible for this act....
J. A. Early, Lieut. Gen."
This link has an interesting description, including:
Burning Chambersburg
"Not all Confederates participated in the sacking of Chambersburg.
The Masonic Temple was spared when an officer who was also a Mason posted guards to prevent its burning.
When the colonel of the 21st Virginia Cavalry refused to obey the burning order, he was arrested and his entire unit sent out of town.
Other Confederates tried to help frantic citizens retrieve household goods before their homes were burned.
"In the end, perhaps 550 buildings went up in flames.
"In spite of the widespread arson and looting, the Rebels killed only one civilian, an elderly African American.
"Angry citizens killed at least five Confederates by the time the raiders had withdrawn."
Ooooops! Sorry, 1964 was a rough year, but not quite THAT tough. ;-)
Meant to say: 1864. Duh...
It wasn't always a picnic for the Indians.
I'm not saying that the country was awful then or that it's always been horrible, just that you have to give the present its due.
A century ago, a lot of people took lentulus's view that the Civil War marked the fall from an agricultural paradise into an industrialized hell. That view picked up supporters when the Great Depression struck.
But from today's point of view, just how realistic is that nostalgia? We're certainly better off than our ancestors were during the Industrial Revolution. I'd argue that people's lives now are better than they were in the rural era that preceded it -- certainly when slavery's taken into account, maybe even without it.
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