Posted on 05/14/2008 8:07:49 AM PDT by Namyak
DICKSON CITY — A Friday evening police incident spilled over into a Borough Council meeting Tuesday, with gun-rights advocates alleging harassment by two police officers.
The regular monthly meeting erupted into a full-blown debate on the Second Amendment, with more than 20 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association members — many of whom were openly armed — arguing their right to carry a weapon in public.
Police have yet to release a report of the incident in which a group of customers at Old Country Buffet were questioned about openly carrying handguns in public. At least one of those customers, Rich Banks, of Luzerne County, was detained for refusing to cooperate with police in regard to his concealed .38-caliber handgun, Police Chief William Stadnitski said. Mr. Banks’ weapon remains confiscated, but the chief said he can pick it up at any time.
Pennsylvanians are required to carry a permit for a concealed weapon; however, there are exemptions, such as in the case of Mr. Banks, who Dickson City police later found out had a federal gun-dealer license.
“We don’t feel there was any misconduct. We did what we had to for the safety of the customers,” Chief Stadnitski said of his part-time officers, Karen Gallagher and Anthony Mariano, who responded to the restaurant after 911 received complaints. The chief said no charges will be filed.
But some, like Andrew Koch, disagreed. Mr. Koch drove more than five hours from Pittsburgh to speak out for Mr. Banks and the other gun owners who were “embarrassed, oppressed, harassed and violated” by the police.
“These officers need to be disciplined, and criminal charges need to be brought against them,” Mr. Koch said.
Firearm association members turned out from all over the state at Tuesday’s meeting after postings on Internet sites, such as www.opencarry.org. The co-founder of that site, Lancaster resident Mike Stollenwerk, drove from Washington, D.C., to protest the police conduct.
“Normally when hiccups like this happen, they don’t go as far as gun seizure. ... Usually it gets cleared up much quicker,” he said.
Bill Grumbine, of Kutztown, carrying a Springfield XD-45 handgun, said he brought his 15-year-old daughter, Emily, for a “real-life civics lesson.”
“The last thing we want to do is use our guns, just like the last thing you want to do is use the air bag in your car,” he said. “But we believe in being prepared, and we believe in exercising our rights.”
Several council members and Mayor Anthony Zaleski defended the police officers.
“Our officers did not know what to expect. They could be walking into situations similar to shootings at school campuses and other public events,” said council President Barbara Mecca.
Contacted by The Times-Tribune, Lackawanna County District Attorney Andy Jarbola declined to comment on this specific case, but said people have a right to openly carry a weapon without having to show identification or a permit.
“Police can ask, but if they don’t want to give it, they don’t have to,” he said. “It’s going to be surprising to the public, but that’s the current state of law.”
Fool! You still must work within the confines of the law. You can't make it up as you go. This was a violation of civil rights. This chief must resign immediately!
unfortunatly the majority of police officers see themselves as sheep dogs rather than actual law enforcement.
For states with preemption laws, localities can not suppress gun owner’s rights beyond what the state prescribes. My state (NC) has a preemption law, but I'm not sure about PA.
I'm not saying that won't stop certain municipalities from trying.
re: “They are good guys, not JBT”
I don’t know these police officers, and I certainly don’t know whether they are good or JBT or something in the middle. I just wanted to point out that JBTs can sometimes appear to be “good” guys. The phrase “the banality of evil,” attributed to Hannah Arendt, applies to just such a situation where evil is done by those who appear to be “good guys.”
“I fear the time is coming where we will have to water that tree of liberty...”
With the current government openly flooding our borders with illegal, disloyal, dependent, and ignorant peasants who don’t know our Constitution from a roll of toilet paper and couldn’t care less, what I fear is that the time for watering is already too late.
The article isn’t very clear on details. Did Old Country Buffet complain about them which they have every right to do? Or did the police take it upon themselves?
In Virginia, municipalities are not allowed to have any gun restrictions which are stricter than the state law.
I recommend it to ALL the states and commonwealths (if they don’t already have such a provision).
The Old Country Buffet has the right to ask them to leave if they were deemed to be some sort of problem.
They had NO business calling the police unless the customers refused to to honor the request to leave.
Sorry to hear that. In Montgomery County, it’s a rubber stamp, while-you-wait process, and about the only actual “waiting” is for your photo to dry so they can laminate your card before they give it to you.
I believe there was a criminal offense:
Deprivation of rights under color of law.
Ignorance of this law and of the open carry laws do not excuse the officers.
I think it's all about where you grew up - I've spent my life in a Philly suburb. A while back a friend (with valid carry permit) came over to my house and pulled out his new .380 to show me. I freaked a little because I was sure someone would see in the window and call the police.
I contrast that with this experience: A few months ago I was driving in Naticoke on my way to visit my cousin who was in the Mercy Acute Care Center. I saw two men nonchalantly comparing rifles out by a truck parked on a house-lined suburban street. I knew right away I was in the mountains and no longer at home!
Naticoke = Nanticoke
At what point in time were they causing a threat to customers?
I am sick and tired of this double standard. They committed a crime. Depriving people of their civil rights without due process is a crime. Period. Cops should not have immunity from that crime because those laws are there because of this EXACT THING. Why should they get a pass for doing what the laws and constitution was written SPECIFICALLY TO PREVENT.
Since you know these officers I suggest that you speak with them and suggest that they get up todate on exactly what the law says regarding open carry.
They could have responded to the call, observed the ‘offenders’ for five minutes to determine just what sort of folks they were and even walked through the restaurant in uniform to see if there was an obvious change in their demeanor. No change = keep going/do not confront citizens.
If they give you any nonsense, please remind them of the difference between citizen and subject.
Ya’know...generally I’m as strident as you in matters of personal rights violations. However, in this case, I just don’t agree that this thing should be drawn out and pushed as a civil rights case. You wrote, “depriving people of their civil rights without due procees is a crime.” That’s true. But, the aggrieved party can reclaim his property, according to the Police. The PT Officers are getting some (badly needed) education. And, the citizenry is safe.
Why not focus the moral outrage on the gun-grabbing Libs who could well take the WH in November?
OTOH...you could be right. I just don’t think this is one to bunch the skivvies.
Either way...keep fighting the good fight. We’ll come out on top.
pretty big damn oops, for mere peasants, this alone would be a violation costing 2A Rights...
ping
These fellows ought to be commended. There is no rule that reads that defenders of the consitution cannot take the offensive. We’ve been on defense (on balance) for decades.
You fear the time is only coming?
It’s been here a long time, FRiend.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.