Posted on 05/14/2008 8:07:49 AM PDT by Namyak
DICKSON CITY — A Friday evening police incident spilled over into a Borough Council meeting Tuesday, with gun-rights advocates alleging harassment by two police officers.
The regular monthly meeting erupted into a full-blown debate on the Second Amendment, with more than 20 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association members — many of whom were openly armed — arguing their right to carry a weapon in public.
Police have yet to release a report of the incident in which a group of customers at Old Country Buffet were questioned about openly carrying handguns in public. At least one of those customers, Rich Banks, of Luzerne County, was detained for refusing to cooperate with police in regard to his concealed .38-caliber handgun, Police Chief William Stadnitski said. Mr. Banks’ weapon remains confiscated, but the chief said he can pick it up at any time.
Pennsylvanians are required to carry a permit for a concealed weapon; however, there are exemptions, such as in the case of Mr. Banks, who Dickson City police later found out had a federal gun-dealer license.
“We don’t feel there was any misconduct. We did what we had to for the safety of the customers,” Chief Stadnitski said of his part-time officers, Karen Gallagher and Anthony Mariano, who responded to the restaurant after 911 received complaints. The chief said no charges will be filed.
But some, like Andrew Koch, disagreed. Mr. Koch drove more than five hours from Pittsburgh to speak out for Mr. Banks and the other gun owners who were “embarrassed, oppressed, harassed and violated” by the police.
“These officers need to be disciplined, and criminal charges need to be brought against them,” Mr. Koch said.
Firearm association members turned out from all over the state at Tuesday’s meeting after postings on Internet sites, such as www.opencarry.org. The co-founder of that site, Lancaster resident Mike Stollenwerk, drove from Washington, D.C., to protest the police conduct.
“Normally when hiccups like this happen, they don’t go as far as gun seizure. ... Usually it gets cleared up much quicker,” he said.
Bill Grumbine, of Kutztown, carrying a Springfield XD-45 handgun, said he brought his 15-year-old daughter, Emily, for a “real-life civics lesson.”
“The last thing we want to do is use our guns, just like the last thing you want to do is use the air bag in your car,” he said. “But we believe in being prepared, and we believe in exercising our rights.”
Several council members and Mayor Anthony Zaleski defended the police officers.
“Our officers did not know what to expect. They could be walking into situations similar to shootings at school campuses and other public events,” said council President Barbara Mecca.
Contacted by The Times-Tribune, Lackawanna County District Attorney Andy Jarbola declined to comment on this specific case, but said people have a right to openly carry a weapon without having to show identification or a permit.
“Police can ask, but if they don’t want to give it, they don’t have to,” he said. “It’s going to be surprising to the public, but that’s the current state of law.”
I'm torn on this one. This is my hometown. I personally know the cops who confiscated Mr. Banks' firearm. They are good guys, not JBTs. On the other hand, what does it say about where are society is heading when simply seeing a gun causes people to start dialing 911? Used to be students at my high school would have rifles in their trucks during hunting season, sometimes just laying out in the open on the seat. And that was only a decade ago.
Good for the gun owners. Legally pushing these gun grabbers back at every chance is what has to happen.
Yeah, I live in Adams County and got my CCP fairly easily even though they made me wait 30 days for “processing” and doing the background check, including calling all three of my personal references.
Jack-booted Thug alert.
At least one of those customers, Rich Banks, of Luzerne County, was detained for refusing to cooperate with police in regard to his concealed .38-caliber handgun,
And then there's this part:
Lackawanna County District Attorney Andy Jarbola declined to comment on this specific case, but said people have a right to openly carry a weapon without having to show identification or a permit.
Sounds to me like your friends the cops engaged in a deliberate conspiracy to deprive Mr. Grumbine of his Civil Rights thereby finding themselves in violation of 18USC242 which carries a penalty of up to 5 years in Federal prison and a rather large fine.
Remember Officer, 'ignorance of the Law is no excuse..'
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander after all.
Arrest these two part-time cops and throw the freaking book at them.
L
“We don’t feel there was any misconduct. We did what we had to for the safety of the customers,”
“Good guys” or NOT, that is a BS statement.
“Doing what they had to do” for public safety SHOULD mean leaving people the hell alone unless they are actually committing a crime.
Did not hear about this. Until now, that is.
Exactly. For most folks, everything they know about guns they learned from movies and TV news. Which is to say, they think seeing a gun is like seeing some sort of metal god that must be appeased with blood at it's very unveiling. The one thing folks never see or will see in movies or TV is a gun simply being there, inanimate, like a fire extinguisher mounted on a wall.
PS - I’m not “torn” on it at all. The Barney Fife’s were WRONG. They should be man enough to stand up and take their medicine.
What is it they say? “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time”?
In some states, open carry is technically legal but is suppressed by local ordinances which prevent anyone from "spooking the herd". Sadly, this is nothing new - but we do seem to have fewer rams among the sheep with each passing year.
PPS - Regarding the police in general. The country would be a much safer and happier place if they recruited MORE Andy Griffiths and A LOT fewer Barney Fifes and Wanna-Be-Rambos.
Unfortunately, apparantly you are mistaken about their character.
Certainly sounds like a bunch of Monday-morning QB’s (on both sides) second guessing the situation.
These officers are referred to as ‘part time’. That’s not an excuse for flagrant violations of rights, but they likely don’t run into the same kinds of situations with the same frequency as full time officers. These two need some more training, but criminal charges? Nah...
The folks openly carrying need also to be aware that, in the current political/social climate, their actions WILL be seen as provacative, to some degree. While it’s a sad state of affairs that the mere sighting of a weapon has folks calling the cops, what do we expect in thia DhimmiLib, multi-culti, PC world?
IMO, these folks did nothing wrong, and the two officers were trying to do their jobs by determining the nature of the situation.
Seems like a whole lot of frothing at the mouth by a bunch of folks with the time to second guess the entire situation. Maybe everyone just needs a time-out...
That’s good to know about these cops. Thanks.
There should be no reason to bring criminal charges against good cops who just had a laps of judgment. But they should learn from this and some consequence is in order. Perhaps a letter of reprimand in their jacket or a 1 day suspension without pay would work here.
Some sort of consequence would also put the JBTs on notice that actions have consequences. Too bad its 2 good cops who slipped up.
I fear the time is coming where we will have to water that tree of liberty...
I fault the police chief for this one. Instead of all of this PC Sensitivity Training that I’m sure the cops are forced to go through, they should be having classes on the meaning of the Bill of Rights and the 1st 10 Amendments. Specifically the 1st and 2nd.
Dispatch might also be taught to ask, when somebody calls in because somebody else is carrying a gun, questions which might help clarify the situation. I can imagine, "Sir, in that locality carrying a gun is not illegal," and then waiting for the caller either to elucidate or to hang up.
Be careful with that assumption. IANAL, so I won't offer any legal advice, but, for example, I will point out my opinion that there are municipalities that have restrictions regardless of state law.
Also, as an example, see some discussion.
I find it odd that no charges will be filed.
The use of 911 to call the police to complain about a citizen carrying a legally licensed handgun in a holster is a clear abuse of the service. 911 is for emergency situations only.
Clearly, the patrons of the restaurant who felt endangered by this apparition could have easily left the restaurant and/or called the police department's regular phone line to lodge a complaint. It is also clear (to me) why they decided to call 911 instead.
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