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Question about oil...

Posted on 04/16/2008 8:15:37 AM PDT by YankeeMagic

I am hoping someone here can help me with this question abnout oil from Alaska. This past weekend we had a visit from my wifes very Liberal Grandparents. The of course rode me on the evil Republicans causing mass suffering worldwide. When the topic got to the price of gasoline, I quickly brought up that Democrat's and tree huggers should support us drilling in Anwar. I was quickly told to learn my history, because the oil drilled in Alaska goes to Japan because Reagan was a crook blah blah blah... So whats the real story about oil from Alaska? A co-worker told me that oil from Alaska was high in sulfer and that's why is it's sold over seas.. Any help to prepare me for the next vist would be greatly appreciated!


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: anwar; anwr; energy; oil
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To: Tallguy

Also, the links at post #17 show California and Washington State receiving the oil, as well as the oil not being exported from the West Coast.


41 posted on 04/16/2008 9:14:32 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: skipper18
Oil is fungible, meaning it really doesn't matter what happens to it once pumped. If we keep it, we don't have to buy it on the open market so it doesn't give the world market any more or less oil. If we sent it overseas, then our market would have to purchase more on the open market. If a person goes to the NYMEX floor, they can see the actual buying and selling of oil all over the world. There is nothing to keep Chavez from buying tankers filled with oil for delivery to Venezuela.

The push to get more domestic oil isn't so much for price,( even though any new sources would help the price go down), but to protect the US from foreign blackmail. If we got most of our oil from the Gulf and Alaska, we couldn't be cut off very easily by dictators. This is about national security more than price. The Dems are leaving us in a precarious position of having to bow to our enemies. Just imagine Ach-minime-jad and Putin and Chavez all get together and decide to Opec us by themselves. Saudi and Canada can't make that much up, so we would have at least 7 years of 3rd world depression till we drilled in ANWAR. It is a matter of national security to get more American oil. Even if Mexico or Brazil found more oil, there is no guarantee that we wouldn't be blocked from getting it.

Much of the controversy of sending oil all over the globe is only certain refineries can handle sour crude. We may very well send certain crude to foreign countries to get refined because we are unable. Valero specializes in sour crude, so I still think we could probably handle any oil out there.

If we were able to drill in Alaska and off Florida, and other places, it would go a long way to reduce the risk priced into the oil market. We are not short one barrel of oil right now. As far as I know there is not one refinery waiting for one more barrel of oil. The price is rising because even a blown pipeline in Nigeria could leave us short some oil. Some, like Bill Orieley, have suggested we all sit home one day to screw the oil companies, but all that would do today is give more oil to China and India to buy. We can't grow crops to get out of this, we can't put up windmills or solar panels to get out of this, the only thing we can do is use less or find more. We could cover Nevada 100% with solar panels and not supply enough juice to light LA. We will either use coal more or drill for oil more and the Dems want neither. What they want is us on bicycles or mopeds like China. Americans( Dems) haven't thought this through yet because of Bush derangement syndrome. When they are walking or paying $10 a gallon for gas, then maybe they won't say drilling in ANWAR is a lost cause.

42 posted on 04/16/2008 9:15:21 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: Tallguy
Here is another set of links to compare.

West Coast (PADD 5) Crude Oil Exports
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrexp52m.htm

Alaska Crude Oil Production
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrfpak2m.htm


43 posted on 04/16/2008 9:18:30 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

Distance is really not that important in the crude shipping business.
You must consider that a year 2000 built 200 000 TDW VLCC procured from a Korean yard would have cost ~USD120M with a lead time of 1 year, whilst a similar Jones Act compliant ship from an American yard would cost ~USD300M with lead time of ~3 years. One of the main costs of tanker ownership/operation is capital amortisation, and you may readily see that the second option would substantially raise the dayrate/WS.
Further, an American crew would cost at least 4 to 5 times that of a Filipino crew with Japanese or Korean officers.


44 posted on 04/16/2008 9:18:41 AM PDT by punchamullah
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To: Tallguy

Two more links, just to remove all doubt.

US Crude Oil Exports by Destination
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EPC0_EEX_mbblpd_a.htm

U.S. Crude Oil Exports to Japan
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrexja2a.htm


45 posted on 04/16/2008 9:20:37 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: punchamullah

Fuel isn’t important?

Check out the links below, there really isn’t any question Alaska Crude oil is being sent to the US West Coast.

West Coast (PADD 5) Crude Oil Exports
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrexp52m.htm

Alaska Crude Oil Production
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrfpak2m.htm

US Crude Oil Exports by Destination
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EPC0_EEX_mbblpd_a.htm

U.S. Crude Oil Exports to Japan
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrexja2a.htm

Here you can see data from the California Energy Commission. They track the amount of oil brought into California from Alaska.

CALIFORNIA CRUDE OIL PRODUCTION AND IMPORTS
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2006publications/CEC-600-2006-006/CEC-600-2006-006.PDF

Here you can see from the Washington Government that 74% of the oil used in Washington State refineries comes from Alaska.

Washington State, Petroleum FAQs
http://qa.cted.wa.gov/portal/alias__CTED/lang__en/tabID__847/DesktopDefault.aspx


46 posted on 04/16/2008 9:22:52 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: chrisser
The problem with moonbat relatives is that for every misconception they have that you explain correctly with facts, they have a thousand other ones that they and their kook friends will cling to.

Or they are just unable to understand simple concepts like my D-I-L who is pro-choice...I actually had to point out to her that if you get pregnant, the end result is that you are going to have a baby. The kicker is that she is a degreed biologist that works with DNA on a daily basis, LOL!

47 posted on 04/16/2008 9:24:22 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: YankeeMagic

By the way, if you respond to them in writing,

It is ANWR, not Anwar.

http://www.anwr.org/

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.pdf


48 posted on 04/16/2008 9:32:16 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: YankeeMagic

Oil is fungible. More on the world market drives down prices.


49 posted on 04/16/2008 9:36:47 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The women got the vote and the Nation got Harding.)
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To: dblshot

The lightering was done before the trans Panama pipeline was built. In fact, non-US flag tankers with Jones Act waivers initially brought the crude to Panama where it was lightered to US ships for the canal transit.

I transported Alaskan crude to Panama after the pipeline was built.


50 posted on 04/16/2008 9:48:20 AM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: thackney

Valdez to Tokyo 3574 miles.

Valdez to Long Beach 7026 miles.

Flat maps make northern latitude distances look bigger than they are.


51 posted on 04/16/2008 10:51:36 AM PDT by dblshot
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To: dblshot

Where did you get that distance to Long Beach?

Try 2268 miles.

7,000 miles would put you in Boliva.

http://www.findlocalweather.com/how_far_is_it/ak/valdez.html


52 posted on 04/16/2008 11:04:15 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: dblshot; thackney

He’s right. Using Tokyo as a benchmark the distance to Japan is roughly 3600 miles. LA/Longbeach was rougly 1,000 miles less. I guess what threw me was looking at a Pacific map using Hawaii as the center. Northern landmasses look much closer.


53 posted on 04/16/2008 11:24:34 AM PDT by Tallguy (Tagline is offline till something better comes along...)
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To: Tallguy

And most of that oil is going to Washington State. Most of their refineries are 1,200~1300 miles from Valdez.


54 posted on 04/16/2008 11:46:38 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

The contention that “most of the Alaskan Oil goes to Japan” has been around a long time. Was it ever true? Perhaps before the pipeline to Valdez was complete, or immediately thereafter?


55 posted on 04/16/2008 12:03:56 PM PDT by Tallguy (Tagline is offline till something better comes along...)
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To: Tallguy
The contention that “most of the Alaskan Oil goes to Japan” has been around a long time. Was it ever true?

No, and it started as a rumor before the oil was even produced. That is why it was illegal to export Alaskan North Slope Crude; it became necessary to get the legislation passed for the pipeline.

The ban against exporting Alaskan North Slope was lifted in 1996. Between 1996-1999 5.5% of North Slope oil was exported to Asian countries. These exports were overwhelmingly supported by the US Congress and by the Clinton Administration to offset an oil glut in California at the time. In June 2000 Alaskan North Slope oil again ceased to be exported, and 100% of Alaskan North Slope production has stayed in America.

More oil went to South Korea during this time than Japan. A little even went to China.

U.S. Crude Oil Exports to South Korea
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrexks2m.htm

U.S. Crude Oil Exports to Japan
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrexja2m.htm

U.S. Crude Oil Exports to China, Taiwan
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrextw2m.htm

Perhaps before the pipeline to Valdez was complete, or immediately thereafter?

Before the pipeline was built, I don't believe any crude oil left the North Slope by tanker in the short ice-free season. There isn't an export terminal on the Shallow North Shore.

56 posted on 04/16/2008 12:22:06 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

My mistake, omnitasking I guess. Still there are a lot of variables that make shipping oil to different places cost more or less and milage is not the only big one.


57 posted on 04/16/2008 12:34:50 PM PDT by dblshot
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To: dblshot

Lots of variables in cost I agree.

But the Alaskan oil is shipped to the West Coast.

Do you agree?


58 posted on 04/16/2008 12:42:54 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

Yes, Polar Tankers a ConocoPhillips fleet and BP carry most of it. They now need more North Slope Oil to reach Valdez storage and West Coast refinery capacity. Alaskans are not receiving the oil checks they used too. AnWAr would help.


59 posted on 04/16/2008 12:50:10 PM PDT by dblshot
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To: dblshot
AnWAr would help.

The problem with that idea is that Alaska gets next to none of the royalties from any ANWR fields since they are on Fed land. Prudhoe is on State land so Alaska could get 50%, but Alaska gets 10% elsewhere according to the present plan. The revenues go out and don't come back. Bridge to Nowhere? It's in Louisiana on Alaska's money.

60 posted on 04/16/2008 12:56:08 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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