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Computer illiterate? Except for those of us who can write code, or maybe only code in some dialect of C, we're all bloody computer illiterate.

Be that as it may (and I am a 20+ year SW engineer) I've been around the block and have seen what Mac people can do on non-Mac machines and what PC people can do on non-PC machines. Mac people are usually completely lost on anything but a Mac.

I’ve dealt with literally thousands of users to come to this conclusion.

Basically if you use a Mac you don't learn to navigate the ghastly counter-intuitive structure of Windows [...]

MacOS and Windows got their start from the same source. They are very similar and neither has a monopoly on intuitive interface or ease of use.

The Mac (correctly) assumes far more stupidity than the PC.

I would say total cost of ownership is the real guage of what you are paying. Apple wins that.

Even if I were to agree with that I'd still disagree that Macs win.

The base machine usually costs 2 to 3 times as much for the same stuff and Mac upgrades are usually at least twice as expensive. Need more RAM? You can't buy the standard sticks, you need the parity stuff for $100s more - and so on.

Plus Mac software tends to cost more.

As for the virus and malware argument, the real issue is that the coders don’t bother with Macs because nobody uses them. . . that's hardly a real advantage. It can be hard going from an enjoyable user experience to a painful one like you get on Windows.

I'm sorry but I've been using Macs since the original Macintosh and I've been using Windows since version 1. I've found both OSs to be buggy, painful, counter intuitive and annoying at times. I can't make the call which is worse.

Macs are somewhat easier on the basics but if you try to do anything advanced you'll end up cursing more on a Mac than a PC, from my experience.

As for the virus and malware argument, the real issue is that the coders don’t bother with Macs because nobody uses them. . . that's hardly a real advantage.

Swordmaker will have to give the specifics, but there was a virus written for Linux formatted iPods. You want to talk about something nobody is using that would be it. I would have to think the millions of Macs out there would have to be a much bigger target than the thousands (at most) Linux iPods out there.

The base machine usually costs 2 to 3 times as much for the same stuff

Outright not true. Mac Pros are cheaper than Dell work stations. Similar computers from other manufacturers cost similar to what a Mac will run you. Apple doesn't have bargain basement computers, and you shouldn't compare them to a bargain basement computer.

Whow! So many myths in one post...

I train people on both platforms... and by far the Mac users are more knowledgeable about Windows than Windows users are about Macs.

The base machine usually costs 2 to 3 times as much for the same stuff and Mac upgrades are usually at least twice as expensive. Need more RAM? You can't buy the standard sticks, you need the parity stuff for $100s more - and so on.

Absolutely not true. Show me a comparable Mac that is 2 to 3 times as much as a comparable PC. These comparisons have been done many times... including the one I just posted and the Mac is either cheaper or within a few dollars of a PC with the same hardware.

Plus Mac software tends to cost more.

You're going to have to prove that one... in actual fact, software is generally about the same price. Certainly the OS is cheaper on the Mac and it includes many free applications.

As for the virus and malware argument, the real issue is that the coders don’t bother with Macs because nobody uses them. . . that's hardly a real advantage.

Ah, the security by obscurity canard... there are approximately 18,000,000 OSX Macs in use in the United States... that is hardly obscure... and demographics have shown that Mac owners usually have more disposable income and cash available... and their machines are, for the most part, totally unprotected by anti-spyware, anti-adware, and anti-virus ware.... yet OSX has been in the wild for over 6 years and the spyware, adware, and virus count is still ZERO. You'd think if your argument were true, there would at least be a few malware writers mining that potential gold mine of unprotected Mac users, wouldn't you?

but if you try to do anything advanced you'll end up cursing more on a Mac than a PC, from my experience.

I think your experience is very limited... probably to pre-OSX Macs.

Macs are somewhat easier on the basics but if you try to do anything advanced you'll end up cursing more on a Mac than a PC, from my experience.

This was one of the basises for my rant on the other thread. I found this out on the old macs, but I stood corrected the newer mac osx versions were far superior than anything before it. One of my main curiosities is to see how advanced you can delve into it.

MacOS and Windows got their start from the same source.

MacOS was a successful attempt to improve on Xerox's work. Windows was an unsuccessful attempt to copy MacOS.

The base machine usually costs 2 to 3 times as much for the same stuff

See my earlier laptop comparison.

Need more RAM? You can't buy the standard sticks, you need the parity stuff for $100s more - and so on.

The extra 2 GB for my iMac was standard laptop RAM from NewEgg. Only the Mac Pros need special RAM, and that's because they're Xeon, and all Xeons need this RAM. The only difference is that Apple requires a quality heat spreader (easily available from non-Apple sources).

Plus Mac software tends to cost more.

Have you compared the price of iWork and MS Office? have you compared the upgrade price of the OS itself, especially if you're upgrading multiple machines?

As for the virus and malware argument, the real issue is that the coders don’t bother with Macs because nobody uses them. . . that's hardly a real advantage.

It's pretty big. In fact, it's been more than doubling recently. Plus, OS X being UNIX gives them the UNIX developers.

I used Macs since the first one, but not as my main machine. I've used Windows since the unbearable 80s editions. There is now no comparison: Going to the Mac as my main machine was a major relief in every way.

You didn't say it? Here is your first such claim:

The base machine usually costs two to three times as much for the same stuff...

Looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.