Cut O.C. firemen’s pay to free more funds for equipment and new firemen

John Seiler ^ | Oct 28 2007 | John Seiler

[freedomdefender]

Here’s a simple way to find more money to hire more firemen and buy more fire-fighting equipment in Orange County: Cut O.C. firemen’s extravagant pay and benefits from $175,000 a year on average to $150,000. (Some even made as much as $268,000 a year.)

At $150,000, they still would be making double the average family income for a resident in Orange County.

Cutting their pay $25,000 would be a reduction of 1/7th. That would mean their forces could be augmented by that amount — or a little less, if some of the saved money is used for buying new equipment. That would be a substantial increase in any government department, especially one as critical as this one.

Alternatively, why not privatize the fire department?

[donna]

Yeah, firemen are spending all the tax money, LOL.

[Carry_Okie]

What used to be a truly hazardous job is far from it today. The combination of flame resistant materials and breathing apparatus have reduced the risks of firefighting significantly.

Worse, union work rules have been rewritten such that firefighters seldom take the risks they once did, in part because the crews have women. In many respects, firefighting has become a cushy job. Several times during a wildfire I have seen a row of half a dozen engine crews standing around collecting overtime at a staging area.

[HKMk23]

My brother’s L.A. Co. FD, and a long-time friend, who was a neighbor of ours growing up, is Orange City FD. They could both tell you stories of fat, dumb, ‘n’ happy FD unionism that’d ruin your gall bladder.

Don’t get me wrong; there are a lotta guys in there EARNING their pay, but there are many, many more who do no more than they absolutely have to, and when you’ve got a bloated union covering for your lazy arse, you don’t absolutely have to do all that much.

And HERE’S a twist for you: it isn’t always the guys making the most money who oughta be priority targets, because sometimes the reason a guy’s making so much, is that he’s the one willing to work extra shifts when others call in sick, or when others want to take their vacation days. If a guy’s willing to pick up the slack like that, for Heaven’s sake don’t penalize him just because it jacks his annual take-home up over $175K.

[Westlander]

Detroit solved the FD situation years ago. Eliminate personnel, close fire stations, and don’t replace broken equipment. Results were positive since the city looks like Pompei anyway.

[Species8472]

I call BS on the pay numbers

From the O.C. Website (http://www.ocfa.org):

HR Home Employment Opportunities Firefighter/Paramedic Lateral Preparation

Lateral Firefighter/Paramedics (FFPs)

Base Pay: The starting monthly salary for a firefighter/paramedic is $5,207.63 (Step 7), prorated on an hourly basis.

Educational Incentive Pay: The OCFA offers three levels of educational incentive pay to eligible Firefighter/Paramedics . Firefighter/Paramedics with a minimum of 60 college semester units receive 2.5% of base pay for educational incentive, or with a minimum of 90 college semester units receive 5% of base pay for educational incentive, or with a BA/BS degree receive 7.5% of base pay for educational incentive.

Sick Leave: Firefighter/Paramedics accrue sick leave for each regularly scheduled work hour paid. Sick leave accrues at the rate of .0347 for each regularly scheduled work hour paid.

Vacation: Employees are eligible for vacation after one year of continuous service, exclusive of overtime hours.

Holiday Pay: Firefighter/Paramedics are eligible for holiday day. The OCFA observes the following holidays: New Year's, Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday, Lincoln's birthday, President's day, Memorial day, Independence day, Labor day, Columbus day, Veteran's day, Thanksgiving, day after Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Uniforms: The OCFA furnishes uniforms necessary for all Firefighter/Paramedics.

Health Plans: The OCFA makes a monthly contribution to a trust fund administered by the Orange County Professional Firefighters Association (OCPFA) for its own insurance plans for Firefighter/Paramedics. In general, these plans usually include medical, dental, vision, and other optional benefits. Employee out-of-pocket costs vary.

Medical Insurance - There are three medical plans in which Firefighter/Paramedics can chose from: California Care, Blue Cross Plus, and Kaiser. Coverage is available for employee only, employee plus one dependent, or employee plus family.

Dental Insurance - There are three dental plans in which Firefighter/Paramedics can chose from: PacifiCare 940, Delta Care PMI, and Delta DPO/Indemnity. Coverage is available for employee only, employee plus one dependent, or employee plus family.

Combined Dental and Vision Insurance - There are three combined dental and vision plans in which Firefighter/Paramedics can chose from: PacifiCare 940, Delta PMI, and Delta DPO. Coverage is available for employee only, employee plus one dependent, or employee plus family.

Optional Benefits - Optional benefits such as life insurance are available through the OCPFA's broker on a case-by-case basis.

OCPFA Supplemental Retiree Medical Plan: Firefighter/Paramedics contribute 1% of their base pay towards an OCPFA Supplemental Retiree Medical Benefit Program.

Retirement: Employees of the OCFA participate in the Orange County Employees Retirement System (OCERS). Firefighter/Paramedics are designated as "safety" under the Orange County Employees Retirement System.

Deferred Compensation: An employee in a regular position may participate in the OCFA's deferred compensation program. The OCFA does not match employee contributions. The current deferred compensation provider is Nationwide.

Dependent Care Assistance Program: The OCFA provides a dependent care assistance program to employees as permitted under the Internal Revenue Code.

Tuition Reimbursement: The OCFA offers tuition reimbursement for eligible employees limited to $200 per fiscal year.

Retirement Health Savings Plan:  Firefighter/Paramedics are automatically enrolled in this benefit program from the first day of employment.  Firefighter/Paramedics are required to contribute 4% of their base salary towards the Retirement Health Savings Plan.  This program is a health benefit savings vehicle that allows employees to accumulate assets to pay for qualified medical expenses under the IRS code at retirement or when they reach age 55 or meet other special qualifications.  This plan is currently administered by Vantagecare/ICMA RC.

 

A firefighter with a base pay of $5,207.63/mo ($62,491.56/yr) is going to have to work a LOT of overtime to double their base pay, and that speaks to a failure of managment.

[freekitty]

Hey, I have a better idea. Politicians, quit stealing the money.

[Grut]

I suspect that “Firefighter/Paramedics” are Paramedics who are part of the OCFA, not Firefighters proper. At least, that’s how I read the text.

[Mad Dawg]

I know, I know:

Let's take the money we spend on illegal immigrants and subsidizing indolence, addiction, and bastardy and spent THAT money on equipment.

[Uncle Chip]

Unionized Firemen in all metropolitan areas are overpaid and underworked — like their unionized public school teacher counterparts.

[editor-surveyor]

Having worked for a county in California for 13 years, I have to call BS on your interpretation of the meaningless data that you presented.

Nobody there is working for base salary. Even raw recruits are given a 5% raise after six months, and again, after 18 months, 30 months, 42 months, 54 months, and 66 months.

Also, working hours rules cause all pay to jump up to overtime rates after working an extra shift, until a regular break occurs. (that can be a week!)

[freedomdefender]

California firefighters also get to retire with big pensions. Paid for by taxpayers who don’t have pensions of their own.

[freedomdefender]

Let’s face it. Building and house fires still happen, but not nearly as often as in days before modern building materials and building codes.

[freedomdefender]

Even that base pay is pretty high for a job that doesn’t require specialized educational training. Are firefighters required to go to college?

[editor-surveyor]

"firefighters required to go to college?"

To rise to upper levels, it may be productive, but all required training is done under full pay, at fire district facilities.

[barb-tex]

Why all the tears over Overtime? I, for one think the base salary is not out of line, and if the overtime is necessary, pay the man, or increase the staff and pay at least that much In benefits and over head. If not necessary don’t schedule it.
If you work a man OT you really get him for half time.
barbra ann

[donna]

Why don’t you go after the politicians first?

Or, maybe the public school teachers who are having sex with our children and teaching them to hate America.

Shoot, firemen are almost the only manly men left in the country. Let’s double their pay.

[Species8472]

I suspect that “Firefighter/Paramedics” are Paramedics who are part of the OCFA, not Firefighters proper

Actually, they are firefighters that have completed a 2 year degree and completed a 480 hour field internship.(http://www.emsa.ca.gov/Para/emtpfaq.asp)

Most Paramedic programs in California are extremely competitive and require extensive perquisites and previous experience to be considered for admission. You can see a list of current programs at:(http://www.emsa.ca.gov/Para/approved_trng_progs.xls)

[freedomdefender]

Let’s double their pay.

To more than $300k? You ARE a big-government liberal.

[freedomdefender]

To rise to upper levels, it may be productive, but all required training is done under full pay, at fire district facilities.

It's a wonderful deal they've got. They make as much as lawyers without all the schooling and intellectual demands. And their tax-funded pensions are BETTER than lawyers - and doctors - in the private sector.