The Next Leap for Linux

The New York Times ^ | 10/04/2007 | Larry Magid

[rlmorel]

I would respectfully disagree. I think just because we don’t do it now doesn’t mean we can’t figure out a way to do it in the future.

I also agree with another poster who stated it has a philosophical and political (I didn’t say religious as well, although everyone knows that is sometimes a propensity as well) quality to the use of a free OS.

I understand that completely. Not my boat, but I can see how it is for some.

[rlmorel]

Bottom line...we are ALL monkeys with keyboards. If there is a way for people to break it, we are going to do so. Even OSX, an OS I use and like can be broken...I am the head of IT in my department so I understand technology pretty well, and I was trying to use Final Cut Pro last night on my Mac at home. It was completely screwed up, wouldn’t transfer data from the video camera, etc. It gave me very strange error messages, and I thought for sure SOMETHING on my computer was fouled up. I checked setting after setting, preference after preference, dicombobulated all external devices, etc.

I was pretty flummoxed. But after a day of dwelling on it, had the eureka moment...it wasn’t the computer, but the camera itself. My finger had accidentally pushed a switch and moved the camera from tape mode to flash disk mode somewhere in the last several days...it just wasn’t apparent from the symptoms what the problem was. It is a small, out of the way switch on the camera that I never even use.

Bottom line, if I hadn’t found that and called support, I’ll bet a buck someone would have had me reinstalling the OS or application. That is the kind of silly issue that people have to deal with all the time...a minor one, but if you don’t know the answer or how to find it...it becomes a major one.

[N3WBI3]

So what? My boss is a Buddhist it has no effect on my Religious opinions one way or the other..

[N3WBI3]

What does a toaster do? A toaster toasts toast.

And beagles ;) Technically anything smaller than say a dlt tape can be toasted ... Oh the possibilities !

[Señor Zorro]

Linux is free so long as your time is worthless.

That used to be true, but isn't any more. Besides, think about how much feed and care you have to give a Windows PC to keep it running. Viruses and mallware prevention and repair takes more time than you probably think about.

People who open .exe from their inbox are not gonna wrap their head around the command line interface, ever.

You don't have to on Linux, if you don't want to.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

I thought MacOS was built around the Mach kernel???

From the XNU Wiki entry, the MacOS X XNU kernel is built around both Mach and FreeBSD, with BSD providing the system calls, IPC, the network stack, NFS, and the Unix process model (layered on top of Mach tasks). An applications programmer accustomed to working with 4.3 BSD or SunOS 4.1 would probably feel at home writing application code for XNU.

[Myrddin]

There is nothing quite so expensive as something that is "free". I've been building and using UNIX systems since 1980. It's a great OS. Linux is built on the UNIX pattern and is a fine operating system. It isn't a "turn key" product that can be tossed at the unwashed masses. It takes a lot of regular maintenance. A competent UNIX system administrator acquires those skills over a period of years. It is quite a stretch to expect every end user to reach that level of competency. I took care of 90 machines serving 30,000 employees. It was my professional responsibility to be good at building, configuring and maintaining those UNIX systems.

It is pretty easy to get a running system (new install) working out of the box. A Knoppix LiveCD is a great example. Most new Windows installations work well out of the box as well. The problems show up after the systems have been running for a few months. Updates and patches arrive. Some are benign. Some cause significant failures. When the smoothly operating appliance stops working smoothly, it's time to fix it. That's what separates the appliance operator from the competent system administrator. What raises the stakes is that the system that has been running for months now has lots of valuable data and user customized configuration invested in it. Often that data represents significant hours of labor. It's not just a "throw away" and reload proposition. It has to be restored to working without destruction of all of the other investment in the system. That is not a task for an unwashed appliance operator. If you're going to adopt Linux as your OS, you also need to make the commitment to be a competent system administrator to properly maintain your new baby. It's going to take time and probably a fair number of new books on your shelf. "Free" only applies to the initial acquisition cost, not the ongoing maintenance.

[Myrddin]

Yep. I can't get my cell phone to work as a modem even though it's supposed to- simply because there is no driver for vista, or one that works properly rather.

If you think its tough getting your cell phone to work as a modem with a Windows OS, just spend some time trying to get it to work with Linux. I run Kyocera M200 1xRTT modules as my cell phone connection to VerizonWireless. My embedded systems are based on Linux. I recently had to tweak the PPP parameters to deal with the changes from Simple IP to Mobile IP being rolled out on Verizon. I'm still twiddling my new USB720 1xEV-DO dongle to work with Linux. The Verizon drivers for Windows XP worked just fine out of the box. Getting the USB streams pointed properly for Linux has been a chore. There a huge blogs with people discussing the difficulties over periods of months before stumbling on the right solutions.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

I don’t know, guys, you are awfully contemptuous of non-techie people in the “if they can’t figure out how to get online, they shouldn’t be there” kind of mode.

That sure wasn't my intention. I agree that OS installation from Linux and the various BSDs should be made easier for end-users, and it's getting there slowly (it's a vast improvement now from the days when configuring XFree86 took a calculator and crossed fingers).

But we need to keep demanding powerful, useful computers, not just glorified web-browsing machines. Software, hardware, and media companies would love to have a captive audience of passive Internet users receiving commercial content, corresponding to the old model of television viewers. This isn't good for any of us - real computers and the Internet provide individuals (even granny!) with the ability to create and share/market their own content, devise and share/market their own innovative applications. The ongoing campaign by tech and media companies to lock down the capabilities of hardware and software are going to inevitably hamper innovation.

[rlmorel]

My assessment came out kind of harsh...I was in a grouchy mood this morning. I always think I should not post on FR until after I get out of the shower.

I understand completely the point you make about freedom of choice and dumbing it down...I just cannot divide it so cleanly between no choice and no inhibibitions...:)

The points you make are perfectly valid though, and I appreciate your communicating them to me the way you did...:)

[CORedneck]

I have been playing with Linux since May 1995. I ran it on a 486DX33 with 32 MB of memory. At the time, sound didn't work and a few months later, I got SLIP dial-up to work. Almost all of my Internet was done on my P90 with Win 3.11 WFW. One nice thing about the Internet in 1995/1996, marketers have not had much of a chance to spoil it unlike today with pop-up and pop-under ads, corporate web sites that are a pain in the @$$ to navigate around especially trying to get technical information.

Today, I play with Linux on the x86 as well as SPARC and MacIntosh platforms. I also have played with FreeBSD, OpenBSD as well. Linux does much more for me today. I play DVD's on Ogle and Xine and this includes Region 2 DVD's (Japanese Anime) as well.

[papasmurf]

If someone could get a push for Ubuntu running machines in schools in place of overpriced macs or just unreliable xp boxes that would expose people at a younger age and get more kids interested in open source.

They are. Ubuntu sponsors groups, called LoCo Group. i.e.Ga.LoCo. That go around to schools and school districts, they attend conventions and job fairs, etc. And they are making headway.

Just google LoCo to find yours.

papasmurf
Ubuntu 7.10
Gutsy Gibbon Beta

[zeugma]

I'd have to say that with Unix systems, your example of having to worry about data on an established system is much easier to deal with. All you have to do to keep most user-customized stuff is to backup /home to an external (or just another internal) drive. Even if you have one of those really unusual situations where you find you're better off wiping the box and re-installing from scratch, all you have to do once the OS load is done is copy /home back.

When I went from the 2.4 to 2.6 kernel on my desktop, rather than just do an upgrade in place, I opted to reload because the way the /dev/ filesystem was changed in such a major way. Since my /home partition was a separate physical drive, I simply told the installer to ignore the drive while wiping the rest of my stuff. Once it was complete, everything just worked. All my data was exactly where I left it, and all my preferences were maintained. That freaking rocks IMO.

[Myrddin]

I configured the production systems at PacBell for rapid recovery as well. System, applications and user data were caefully separated. I could recover the root filesystem from a mirror image in under 2 minutes. That was a traditional UNIX system before the world of shared libraries became common.

Today, I have embedded Linux running from FLASH disks on my rail cars. Disk space is at a premium. The kernel is custom generated for minimum size...just the features required to do the job. Executables are examined with "ldd" to identify the minimum necessary set of shared libraries. Those libraries go on the disk in the correct spots to support the application. Boot time from power on is under 15 seconds to fully operational.

Once those FLASH images are deployed, the fun begins. Debian or Fedora patches are coming out on a regular basis. The compiler, headers, libraries and kernel on the development system are getting updated. The next time the applications tree gets recompiled....oops. The libraries underneath have changed. You can't just replace the applications because many of them require a later version of the shared libraries. In Windows parlance, welcome to DLL Hell. Further, when the kernel changes, there are special kernel modules required to support the interrupt driven I/O processes. They must be built against the exact kernel build tree that will be used for the execution environment.

Linux, QNX or Windows are equally painful when working with embedded systems. Trying to incrementally support a bunch of embedded Linux systems while the Linux world continues to morph underneath isn't particularly pleasant. A desktop Linux system with connections to the internet does a pretty good job of keeping pace with patches. Even so, I have a server on the east coast that was "upgraded" to Fedora Core 5 when the Debian 2 ran out of gas (and Debian support). Now Core 5 is itself out of date. I have to backup all the special web server applications and mySQL databases before upgrading to Core 7. The company network security people are constantly doing security scans. A Core 5 system is eventually going to fail to get a crucial update. The penalty is immediate loss of access to the network until the discrepancy is remedied.

[ShadowAce]

...before upgrading to Core 7.

I believe Fedora 8 is coming out in Dec. Fedora is on a 6-month release schedule now.

[zeugma]

I can understand your pain with the embedded systems. It's pretty hard keeping that kind of environment up-to-date when everything is rolling forward so quickly. Frankly I'm amazed at how fast everything is moving. If you look at what has happened in just the past 3 years in the Linux world, you'd see usability has really improved for the non-expert. These days, an install of K/Ubuntu is much easier than Windows, and easier to keep updated as well.

[Myrddin]

I believe Fedora 8 is coming out in Dec. Fedora is on a 6-month release schedule now.

That's a pain. I have 3 Fedora Core 7 systems at the house and two Debian 4.0. The lab in Virgina is Debian 4.0. The server in Virginia is Core 5 awaiting update to Core 7. The embedded systems started as Slackware 9.0 because that was the example image provided by Diamond Systems to go with their boards. I needed extra items in my kernel to support OLSR mesh networking, so the canned example image wasn't enough. Diamond has only updated their DSCUD 5.92 kernel driver up to kernel 2.6.11.10. It has problems with the current 2.6.18 vintage. Keeping up with the constant change includes dealing with hardware/software vendors that are also behind the curve. Linux will soon ditch the x386 world. You'll need a more modern CPU to boot it. That will leave many of my PC104 CPU boards abandoned.

[Myrddin]

I'm pleased with the improved wireless network and USB support in the 2.6 kernels. Under QNX I had to resort to an Ethernet bridge to 802.11b. No USB or wireless support even at QNX 6.2. I can now track down cheap 802.11b/g USB radios and take advantage of the support in the kernel. My next gen comm boards are still using Ethernet to 802.11b wireless bridges from DPAC. I opted for a CANDIP28 form factor of the Lawicel CAN232 device to reduce the mass of electronics riding on the railcars. Vertical impacts have sheared connectors on prior designs. The new design is an 8 layer board with all components surface mounted and conformal coated. The first board is due to be shipped by Friday of this week.

[CodeToad]

“LINUX runs the Google servers that manage billions of searches each day.”

That’s a disinginuous statement. Google has heavily modified their version of Linux to only include the pieces they needed and they even re-wrote much of it.

[Myrddin]

I was running Xenix on the TRS80 Mod 16A (68000) at my house in 1983. I used that platform to port David Korn's early version of the Korn shell. My only connectivity was UUCP with a dialup to UCSD as my edge of the network. It was suitable for e-mail connectivity. Phil Karn released his "net" code that permitted running TCP/IP on a DOS box in 1985. I ported it into Xenix and had a 9600 bps SLIP link between boxes in my office. Bill Simpson was still developing PPP protocol at that time. He was pressing Van Jacobson to finish his TCP header compression to make the PPP approach more palatable.

I had to drag my company (PacBell) in the TCP/IP direction. My room full of UNISYS 7000 systems were first linked with SLIP links at 19200 in a "star" configuration using the 36 port serial interface on one machine to create a big default destination and router. After demonstrating the economic benefit of the "cheap" implementation, the company authorized installation of Ethernet on all 80 machines (San Diego and Hayward). The savings continued to accrue and the pattern was set for continued deployment.