Posted on 06/03/2007 10:42:22 AM PDT by patton
I think the fix to illegal immegration is the same as that for vote fraud - national ID cards.
In both cases, without knowing who is a US citizen, and where they live, it is almost impossible to verify eligability to drive, work, rent a house, or anything else.
Of course, national ID cards are, in effect, an internal passport - something Americans reject strongly. That is problem #1.
Also, as with the "no fly list", what recourse do you or I have, when some government flunky makes a typo, and labels you or I as an illegal alien in the database? One typo could ruin your life.
The VA DMV did this to me a few years back - they decided that I was a terrorist, and sent me a letter saying that my drivers license was suspended. It was a nightmare, and took days to straighten out.
Having said that, consider the TX town that recently passed a law making it illegal to rent a home to illegals.
How is a small-time landlord to verify legal status, without a national ID?
Yes, you can file an INS check, but does it work? Can it?
In Mass, the new governor is trying to stop the state police from conducting INS checks. So that illegals can not be busted for driving while illegal.
In both PA and TX, legal fights over town laws that preclude renting to illegals are legion, and will not soon be resolved.
In short, I see a number of problems with our current handling of the situation inside the US.
While the officers of the CO meat company are being prosecuted for deliberately hiring illegals, that sort of thing seems to be pretty rare. And most of the time, the cases will be darn hard to win. The fed must prove the CO commited the fraud, not the illegal.
Again, a national ID would fix this, but at great cost, both in money and to our freedoms.
I hear a lot about building a southern barrior, be it a wall or a sensor net or anything else.
When I said a mexican could get a tourist visa to Canada for little money (on another thread), I did not mean a forged one - I meant, how hard is it, legally, for a mexican to take a flight to Canada?
I imagine it is pretty easy, and not very expensive.
Now, having said all that, you may disagree with me, and I enjoy the debate.
Please keep it civil.
The only “national ID card” should be a passport.
There are crooked employees within the DMV/DPS offices who knowingly provide legitimate photo ID (i.e. they are not FAKE driver’s licenses) to people they know have presented falsified identities. There was a woman who even did such a thing to illegal immigrants from the Middle East AFTER 9-11.
Since the states would never issue a death penalty conviction for such treason, you have to go to an ID (passport) that will be treated as a serious offense when the corrupt employee decides to try to make an extra buck and provide falsified documentation to a person.
And some have talked of biometrics. I am opposed to a fingerprint database because those fingerprints can be used for other screening purposes beyond just “matching the ID to the bearer”. BUT it would be good to use something (like retina scans) to sift through DUPLICATE entries in the national ID database (people carrying around multiple identities).
Isn’t that an internal passport, though?
I sometimes suspect that one of the reasons that the powers that be left the borders open and allowed the illegal alien threat to become so prominent was to “persuade” us of the need for a National ID card which, along with disarming American citizens, are the foundation for absolute state control.
Have we come this far as a nation that we truckle to the American lackeys of the one world socialists?
Darn good question.
It seems this thread is DOA.
I agree. Creating a crisis that needs to be solved when you already have a desired outcome is totally part of the Hegelian Dialectic/Delphi Technique.
You create the crisis and solve it by getting people to accept something that they never would otherwise. The goal is never to actually fix the problem, but to get the majority of people to go along with your ‘solution’ (which is what you really wanted in the first place). And you’re blameless because hey, you’re just doing what most people told you they wanted.
It should never, ever be compulsory for someone to get a government-issued ID. Never. Ever.
What frightens many people is the IDEA of total gov’t control using IDs. There are some very nasty control freaks in DC and it’s a small step from a national ID card to the “mark of the beast” : a barcode on hand or forehead. Yes, you catch many criminals that way but the very concept of liberty/freedom, the foundations of the USA, disappear with it : an Orwellian police state. Beware of those who try to sell you “security” in exchange for your freedoms.
Heinlein said, If I can’t read, How can you insist I file tax papers?”
You are exactly correct - I agree.
So, how, as a patrolman stopping a car, do you know the driver is illegal?
You can’t, without an ID.
How, as a landlord, renting him a house, do you know he is illegal?
Again, you can’t, without an ID.
So everybody needs an ID, proving residence, citenship, etc.
Mark of the beast, indeed.
Is that our next step?
Mark of the Beast—It’ll be a computer chip. Live Free or Die, I say.
Well said.
Hey, I know - let’s hire some dang beltway bandit to administer a federal ID program.
Naah - that would be a stupid idea.
They are all too busy fighting some damn war.
Why do you flag me in here, and word your post in such a way that sounds as if the ID system is not your solution to the illegal immigration/hiring/housing there of? It was not our idea. We were against it well before you offered it as a solution at my place.
It is your solution to the problem. You take the heat for it.
The ID issue has been there in the book of revelation for 2000 years, and people DO read their bibles. So on one extreme we have a WORLD police state with tattooed barcodes or somesuch, on the other extreme is anarchy. Photo IDs as in driver’s licenses, work permits, social security, prescriptions is acceptable as they are limited to specific activities and rights. A national ID in the hands of a beast like hillary = a nightmare orwellian state.
The PROBLEM at the moment is the mexican flood. We saw this before when castro dumped his human refuse on us with the muriel boat lift. Now the mexican government is using us as their toxic waste dump in the same way. They breed like flies but are incapable of developing a growing economy to support them. So we’re getting dumped on as their social/political safety valve, their anus output so to speak.
Thus we are learning what the israelis have to contend with as palestinians try to sneak across their borders. They are way ahead of us in fence building. The kennedy amnesty bill has finally woken us up to the threat to national security that these wetbacks pose.
This harkens back to the irish potato famine invasion : no irish need apply(for work). This is why we have immigration laws, a moderate pace of separating the wheat from the chaff, sheep from goats. Hungarians, vietnamese, cambodians...on and on, refugees from all over the world are here and productive citizens as well, but at a reasonable, digestable pace.
But if we just simply ACCEPT this mexican flood with amnesty, that’s a clear invitation for the entire third world to invade us as well. There are 20:1 out there. If 3 people live in your home, that’s SIXTY living in your home.
So I don’t see GWB in the white house for very long if he opens the flood gates for every poor person in the entire world to home in on our welfare system. He was naive on social security reform, he was naive on iraqi democracy, now he’s being just as naive on this mexican FLOOD problem.
The israelis shoot palestinians trying to worm their way in, it may come to that for us as well. Once these mexican burglars realize they can get shot trying to break into the american house.....
Please, let out your feelings.
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