Posted on 05/16/2007 5:43:06 AM PDT by Zakeet
Linus Torvalds has hit back at Microsoft's claims that it holds 42 patents that are infringed by the Linux kernel.
Torvalds, the leader of the project to create the Linux kernel, was contemptuous of Microsoft's claims and has asked Redmond to name the infringements so that their veracity can be challenged and workarounds found.
"Naming them would either make it clear that Linux is not infringing at all (which is quite possible, especially if the patents are bad), or would make it possible to avoid infringing by coding around whatever silly thing they claim," he said in an email exchange with Information Week.
"So the whole 'We have a list and we're not telling you' should tell you something. Don't you think that if Microsoft actually had some really foolproof patent, they'd just tell us and go, 'nyaah, nyaah, nyaah!'?"
Torvalds added that Microsoft might have patent problems of its own if the company was to expose its software to public scrutiny in the same way as Linux.
He said that operating system procedures have not changed much since the 1960s, and many companies, including IBM, have patents of which Microsoft could well find itself in breach.
Torvalds was sanguine over the possibility of legal action and believes it unlikely that anyone would get sued.
"Microsoft would have to name the patents then, and they are probably happier with the [fear, uncertainty, doubt] than with any lawsuit," he predicted.
Sorry, that was an exaggerated example of software patents - I dont actually know all the patents MS has or which ones they will try to enforce.
Some are things like FAT that they have never enforced but could use as a weapon. Others are general like summarizing a document and some are nutty like “identifying when baseball is exciting.” I think MS has about 4,000 software patents so far with another 3,000 pending.
That's generally how he is. He's a simple guy: show the facts or shut the hell up. Otherwise he can't be bothered.
They could not financial fight Microsoft if Microsoft has valid complaints.
There is a an organization that has a collection of patents held for open source software, many of which are likely infringed on by Microsoft products. They have promised to sue if open source is attacked. Plus, many of the claimed patents are over OpenOffice, owned by Sun, which has its own defensive portfolio. And the kicker is that IBM has a huge vested interest in Linux, and they have more patents than anyone.
Torvalds can say this because he know Microsoft would start a firestorm of patent suits that would paralyze the industry. Think of the cold war Mutual Assured Destruction, and one side was actually dumb enough to fire its missiles.
I understand the point you were making, and I completely agree with it.
More FUD from Microsoft
“40% of the world’s internet servers run on linex? I don’t know enough about this stuff to argue. Where is the information about servers available? thanks”
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
Apache is the web server that runs (usually) on Linux. This also doesn’t count email servers, etc that also run on Linux.
****
And here is a link for ALL servers — http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P2438
You’ll see why M$ is worried.
Torvalds is playing shrewdly. Inviting MS to lay its cards on the table was a good move; Microsoft's failure to do so damages its credibility.
“I’m a lawyer” Please don’t EVER respond to my comments again. Even if they are wrong.
Ok. I need to run from here. I don’t know enough about tech to argue. And there’s a lawyer on this thread! RUN!
Apparently you don't know that Linus wrote Linux. He would know if he intentionally violated Microsoft patents.
He would also know that any claims of "patent infringements" are bogus due to the nature of patent law applied to technology in the past 20 years. Many patents are completely bogus.
The claim by Microsoft earlier this week that open source infringes 235 patents, has taken an interesting turn.
Steve Ballmer cited an independent report published last year that he said claimed that open source Linux violates 228 patents. The author, Dan Ravicher, said that the report "actually proves the opposite of what they claim it does," and that it did not claim that open source software faces legal problems.
In the report, Ravicher sought to stress the difference between potential and actual patent violation. This difference has been ignored in Microsoft's reference to the report.
"Open source faces no more, if not less, legal risk than proprietary software," Ravicher told technology news site eWeek. "The market needs to understand that the study Microsoft is citing actually proves the opposite of what they claim it does."
"There is no reason to believe that GNU/Linux has any greater risk of infringing patents than Windows, Unix-based or any other functionally similar operating system. Why? Because patents are infringed by specific structures that accomplish specific functionality," said Ravicher.
Ravicher said that the crucial difference between his report and Ballmer's use of it was in the distinction between potential and actual patent violation.
"Ballmer makes a very bold statement by saying Linux infringes hundreds of patents," Ravicher said. "That is extremely different than saying 'Linux potentially infringes x patent,' because the requirement to prove infringement is much more difficult than the requirement to simply file a case claiming infringement."
Ravicher is the founder of the Public Patent Foundation and an expert on patent law. He was in South Africa earlier this year when he spoke at the Freedom to Innovate South Africa event in Pretoria. (See story)
"Put or shut up" trips up another blowhard, right here on the thread.
Being a jerk aside, he has done stellar work.
In his defense, though—he wasn’t the one who came up with the name. He wanted to call it “Freax”.
Novell....Sun....RedHat....there are plenty of pockets to pick.
I didn’t know that. It raises my opinion of him. Although, also in his defense, hacking on him for “Linux” is incredibly petty of me....and ironic considering I’m a huge SLED fan.
I am not an expert in this area of the law, but it seems to me that Linux might be able assert a defense of waiver. Here, MS says its patents are being infringed by Linux - doesn't identify them -- and doesn't intiate legal action against Linux. The net effect is that MS is letting Linux violate its patents without taking action to stop the infringements. That sounds like a waiver of the patents claims.
“They could not financial fight Microsoft if Microsoft has valid complaints.”
IBM would do the fighting and they hold older and better patents. Go look at the stock price of SCO and see who is really at risk.
I agree with you--and so does Linus Torvalds. However, I also realize the significant legal muscle MS has. While legal ideals are being violated, I assume legal realities will come into play once (if) the courts get into this.
Keep in mind that MS really doesn't want to go to court. They merely want to scare the bigger companies and players in the linux world into striking deals with MS. Once the bigger players do that, the smaller ones will just fall into line. If that ever happens, then MS wins, as they have with all their "partners" over the years.
Similar to SCO case? “You’re violating patents, but I can’t show you the data”......coincidence?
I can’t imagine that that strategy works unless you identify the patents. If I were a company that MS was coming after for patent infringement and they refused to identify the patents because it would prejudice their legal position with others. I’d say fine. We’ll sign an NDA and contractually obligate ourselves not to disclose to third parties anything you disclose to us. Then I would ask them to show me the patents so that I can make an intelligent decision on what, if any, legal liability my company has. If they are not willing to do that, then I think most lawyers are going to laugh at them and tell them to put together a more convincing shakedown pitch.
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