Feud turned deadly in N.H. ( cousin of famed skier Bode Miller )

boston globe ^ | May 13, 2007 | Michael Levenson and John M Guilfoil

[george76]

New Hampshire authorities said yesterday that they will not press charges against a former Marine who stepped into a deadly shooting and killed a 24-year-old high school dropout who had moments earlier fatally shot a police officer.

The former Marine, Gregory W. Floyd, 49, was driving with his son along Route 116 in Franconia on Friday night when he saw Liko Kenney, 24, shoot Franconia Police Corporal Bruce McKay, 48, four times in the torso. After Kenney drove his Toyota Celica over McKay as the officer lay on the ground, Floyd grabbed the officer's service weapon and shot and killed Kenney. . . .

The elder Floyd drove his Tahoe into a spot between McKay and Kenney as a shield and told his son, who is in his late teens, to run to the officer's cruiser and radio for help.

The elder Floyd picked up McKay's gun from the ground and ordered Kenney to drop his weapon. Kenney refused, and Floyd saw Kenney appear to be reloading, Conte said. Floyd then shot and killed Kenney, Conte said. . . .

New Hampshire's attorney general, Kelly A. Ayotte, said Floyd will not face charges because he was justified in using deadly force.

[george76]

I do not know the answer to your question nor the local details.

Perhaps others in state or in the profession can be more helpful.

“still doesn’t explain the discrepancies in the AG offices Investigation statements though. How did a dash cam videotape what was happening behind the cruiser?”

[TheBethsterNH]

“Franconia Residents Struggle To Understand Shootings”

Yes, this is true...in town most of the community places like the town hall and churches parking lots were packed tonight even...people trying to figure out what really happened and how to go about these two services...lots of street sweeping and cleaning up litter too just to try to restore town pride, i think.

[george76]

Please let me know the answer to your question...if there is one or several possible answers ?

Sorry for the suffering in your community.

[TheBethsterNH]

do not know the answer to your question nor the local details.

Perhaps others in state or in the profession

See my post #116...gives the statement discrepancies and the links to those statements...its pretty simple, a dash-cam in a police cruiser is pointed to the front of the cruiser but in this case the incident occured behind the cruiser after the cruiser got in front of Kenney fleeing to stop him by blocking.

[george76]

I wish that I could explain the details of this, but I would be guessing.

[george76]

Any thoughts on this question ?

Thank you in advance :

” It is hard to figure out how a cruiser dash-cam captured what happened BEHIND the cruiser though...don’t you think?”

[tiger-one]

I need an update from you as to what this post references, beyond the topic?

[Candor7]

I do not know the answer to your question nor the local details. Perhaps others in state or in the profession can be more helpful. “still doesn’t explain the discrepancies in the AG offices Investigation statements though. How did a dash cam videotape what was happening behind the cruiser?”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

*************************************************

The local newspapers have been less than accurate with information. Most articles give the basic facts with sub articles in boxes with local comments about the shooting which give opinions both pro and con the two victims.

There are 4 primary sources of information:

1) the dash cam of the cruiser, the video in possession of the NH AG's office.

2) Caleb, Kenny's passenger, who has virtually been in comunicado

3) Floyd, who also has isolated himself.

4)Floyd's son, who also has been isolated.

The press has no access to these sources, and much of what you read is the official AG line, and opinions of folks on the event, mostly based on conjecture. But the social dynamic is no mystery to anyone.

There will be 4000 to 6000 police officers in the community ( Cannon Mountain, Peabody Lodge) for the service on Thursday ( Today is wednesday, 16th May) , plus local people. I think most people want to get the service over before trying to put a complete picture together.

The NH AGs office has not yet given a very detailed forensic picture of what happened, I think largely for civil liability reasons. They are the only ones who have a complete picture, but there are 3 live witnesses to the event, so I am sure that in time we will know exactly what, where and when things happened.

The why? will always be in conjecture, simply because of politics. I say this as a Conservative: McKay, in my opinion was a good, ethical, unwavering , law enforcement officer. He was professional about his work, and the Franconia Police department was in a running policy battle with the more Liberal or Libertarian part of the community, who saw the antics of Lito and his companions in the context of youthful, Frat like pranks. The Law officers of Franconia saw them as a group who frequently endangered the public and broke traffic and drug laws. The question is whether the battle between them is over, or whether it will escalate.

I recognize Litos friend, Caleb , a passenger in his car at the time.He worked at a local AGWAY store where we occasionally shop. He has about 20 piercings of his nose, eye lids, lips etc. Litos group were not a good ole boy group,like on the Dukes of Hazard. They likely ran drugs, were armed, and were and still are immature for their age. I agree that they are a frequent danger to the community through speed violations and drug use, and that McKay was right in keeping an eye on them, including Lito. When Lito broke the law, it was enforced. With McKay gone, perhaps these youth will have their way, but I doubt it.

Lito saw himself as a bit of a kingpin in his little group and had big plans for a life of partying and easy money, while constructing a front life of 9 to 5 work.

Our towns here in the Northeast are full of such groups of youngsters who stay in town after high school or dropping out of school. They work low paying jobs , and drive and party hard on the week ends. They may have dreams but do little to act on them. They do not want to join the military to serve. They are self centered and generally spoiled by doting parents, raised with sparse discipline. So when they run up against real discipline, for the first time, it is often at the hands of a police officer, and then they have tantrums, like they always have at home, to get their way. It doesn't work. Some become smart enough to move away, or go back to school , or serve in the military. Others choose a life or rebellion which leads to serious drug use and deviant behaviour. Most of our young folk graduate from school and go to college , serve in the military, or do local trade work.

The Lito Kennys of the North East towns are thankfully a very small minority, but each town of 2000 or so people or less, has a few of these immature, spoiled young adults, and thankfully , our police keep them in check.

In my small town we call them the "knarly" crowd, from whom you would want to hide your daughters, guns, and dogs.

Liberals want to see Lito as a folk hero, and decry Greg Floyd as a former criminal out of control.

Conservatives support the work of Bruce McKay and the Franconia Police Department, and want to award US Marine Greg Floyd a medal.

And if the knarly crowd in Franconia and Eaton do not get themselves under control, this incident will be the beginning of a long battle, which goes on in one community or another up here continuously, thanks to parents who do not curb their kids until its too late.

A local paper that is following the story is the Caledonian Record. I am sure they will be carrying photos of Wednesday's Tribute to McKay and the Thursday Memorial service, with thousands of Officers from around the country and Canada.

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/

There are no photos available of Lito. His was not an attractive image. So the family is making sure the press has none.

This tragedy did not haver to happen. It was in the last analysis caused by a judge and attorneys who did not jail Lito for his former assault conviction. He was given a suspended sentence and probation, with a negotiated condition that McKay was to call other officers if he needed to enforce the law on him. This empowered Lito in the eyes of his friends and the knarly crowd. Lito thought he could pick and choose his police officer, and used the dynamic to escape having the law applied to him.He saw himself as in the right and a partial martyr to an unfair system of justice. What was ordinary law enforcement on a spoliled adult child, was seen as harassment by him, in the same way a spoiled brat sent to his room with no dinner would see that as harassment. In fact Lito did not know the danger of the game he was playing. As a result, two people died, and fortunately it was not more.

As usual, if the law was fully enforced in the beginning against Lito in terms of sentencing to jail for assaulting Bruce McKay, he would not have been empowered to see himself as a local hero.Then this whole thing likely would not have happened.

Liberal whiney justice again, has had very negative consequences.

The basic fault lies with a Coos County judge and a bunch of lawyers on both sides,who allowed Litos former plea bargain, instead of throwing the book at him like the Francionia Police had wanted 4 years ago.

[tiger-one]

I live in NH. I agree with your assessment. The Union Leader, ran a history of Floyd. He is a rouge, law breaker, and it appears to me as anti social. The UL quoted him as saying “I don’t miss” I'm a former cop, we did not have dash cams, and I doubt DCs rotate on their own. I doubt the cruiser had front and rear dash cams, but it may be equipped with a mic for audio pickup.

There are many who post on this thread who have no idea what LE work is about. They range from ignorant to having a true desire to understand what happened. One of my big questions is why McKay was not wearing vest. It does not fault him for getting killed, but it may have sustained his life until the EMTs could work on, and save him.

We must wait for the official results from the AG.

[Candor7]

When I was in law school ( Canada) in 1975, I spent the summer working with a municiple police department that had about 60 officers, including detectives and forensics specialists. I was rotated through all the various functions, and was partnered with several career veterans. I have been in high speed chases, hauled dead people out of windows of burning bubildings, and attnede murder and suicide scenes. I have seen K-9s enter wharehouses and capture burglers, and I must say, that was probably the most fun I have seen, and back to back with my partner, duked it out with 5 brothers and threw them all into the paddy wagon we had. I have so many stories from that summer I could write a book.

For 5 months I worked and lived as an officer. I was offered a job at the end of that summer, but returned to law school.

I have the greatest respect for law enforcement officers. I also learned the basics of being able to know a good fully engaged officer from one that is lax, or occasionally lax.

I did not know Bruce McKay personally. But I have very close friends in the medical field who had attended emergency response training with Bruce. They thought Bruce was a consummate professional who put on professional demeanor with his uniform. Off duty he was a good neighbor, and a fine father who loved the outdoors and brought his daughter up in it. He did his job well and was promoted for it to the rank of corporal. That means the Franconia police department saw Bruce as a keeper.

The other problem that no one has mentioned is that Franconia does not have a large police department. Most of the time there would only be one officer on duty except maybe on weekends, with a joint fire/police/ambulance dispatcher.

That means there likely would not have been another Franconia Officer on duty to call without calling in an officer who was on his rest shift.Small towns often compliment each other when backup is required, but that is an optional call on the part of off scene adjacent town officers.

Many small towns, such as mine, do not have a police department, and rely on the State Police. After 4 in the afternoon, it can take from 2 to 3 hours for a state police officer to respond to a call. So most citizens are quite prepared to look after themselves or to help police if necessary. It is in this context that Greg Floyd stepped up. I believe he is a hero who exercised good, proper judgement. And there are many more like him here in Northeast Vermont and New Hampshire, many of them conceal carry like I do, just to be of help if necessary.

I can also say that many small towns do not have kevlar vests, or do not require them being worn. That was a significant oversight here but I am not sure whether the responsibility for it rests with the department or Bruce himself.

[Candor7]

ran a history of Floyd. He is a rouge, law breaker, and it appears to me as anti social.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are right. Up here we have many military veterans who have been mentally and/or physically wounded by their service in the military. Many are anti-social, and have perimeters established around their homes with fields of fire. They raise their families and otherwise are good citizens who value their privacy and fair treatment by civil authority. Floyd is a tough guy and a shooter , like many. He has had run ins with authority, but no prosecutions of which I am aware. Liberal press and drive by media will continue to defame him, and to reconstruct Lito as a local Robin Hood, far from the truth, who had little or no regard for the wider community, which he failed to understand.

Having men like Floyd is the price we pay for having an effective standing military. Most I have met, I like and respect. I have met many like Floyd, they often attend our local shooting range. With most I have developed a liking relationship of mutual good fellowship. Some do not want friends, and I accept that. I do not know Floyd, but chances are, we would become good friends if I did.

[tiger-one]

I agree

[george76]

Thank you .

This is very helpful.

[george76]

TheBethsterNH was asking this question.

I did not have the answer.

[Candor7]

TheBethsterNH was asking this question. I did not have the answer.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No one has the complete answers on the forensics side of this event. We have three silent witnesses and an AG desire to limit its liability, and Greg Floyds liability.

We also likely have several authors snooping around who will want to write a book about the social dynamic and the forensic data.

Sooner or later it all will come out.

From what I understand:

1) Kenney saw Mackay drive by as he was parked with Caleb.

2)Kenney pulls out and takes off speeding and eventually passes McKay who is parked on the side of the road.

3) McKay gives chase and pulls Kenney over.

4)McKay gets out and approaches Kenneys vehicle, Kenney says get another officer and speeds off.

5) McKay gives chase and does a cut off maneuver to stop Kenney.( McKay then likely repositions his cruiser because the rear of his cruiser is likely jutting out into traffic.)

6)McKay gets out and instructs both to get out of the car and attempts an arrest. Kenney refuses and has gun in hand in the car.

7) McKay pepper sprays Kenny who fires at McKay hitting him im the chest, and pumps 3 more into McKay.

8) McKay falls in front of Kenney's car and Kenny starts car and runs over him ( once or twice not sure).

9) Kenney stops , gets out of car and is in the process of reloading when Greg Floyd pulls up his vehicle between Kennys car and McKays Cruiser, telling his son to get on the cruiser's radio and call for help, which son does ( 19 years old)

10) Floyd exits his vehicle, stoops to draw McKay's side arm, jacks in a shell and presents the side arm to Kenney who is still reloading. It is unclear whether Kenney was in his vehicle or outside of it.

11) Floyd demands that Kenney drop his weapon or he will shoot.

12) Kenney does not drop weapon.

13) Floyd pulls, likely hitting Kenney with a lethal shot to the head, US Marine style, one shot only.

14) Back up police respond to the scene 10 to 15 minutes later. State police a few minutes later.

15) Floyd is placed under arrest until statements are taken from all witnesses, and later released. He had a limp according to witnesses who saw him the next day in a store where he bought a Newspaper, stating: " I am the shooter mentioned in the paper." Floyd was wearing shorts and a T shirt and had a cane.I do not know whether the limp was a former injury or one caused by the incident.

That is the best I can do at this time on the forensic construction of the events, pending release of further information by the NH AG ( unlikely without court process) or statements from the other 3 witnesses ( maybe in a week or two).

If anyone has any other details to flesh this out more, please feel free.

[george76]

Thank you for responding with so much detail.

It is very helpful in understanding the situation.

[Candor7]

UR Welcome George. This stuff is from local papers, a lot of it filtered out by the MSM.

However , its sure to change as more deatails come out.

[george76]

The media filters out the facts that are contrary to their agenda.

And they push scenarios to bolster their agenda.

[TheBethsterNH]

Oh there are photos of Liko out there.

I also check the NH AGs press releases page also which has these written statements which are in some instances contradicting eachother.

I am also conservative and very familiar with the area, from the evening of Friday May 11th, things are not jiving and I am not the only one noticing this.

[TheBethsterNH]

) McKay gives chase and pulls Kenney over.

4)McKay gets out and approaches Kenneys vehicle, Kenney says get another officer and speeds off.

5) McKay gives chase and does a cut off maneuver to stop Kenney.( McKay then likely repositions his cruiser because the rear of his cruiser is likely jutting out into traffic.)

6)McKay gets out and instructs both to get out of the car and attempts an arrest. Kenney refuses and has gun in hand in the car.

But you are missing the part about the cruiser being parked blocking Kenneys vehicle in which means the cam was pointed in another direction...as i stated bofore, i am not the only one seeing something wrong here.