Anna Nicole Smith, The Investigation #3

[mom4kittys]

Thread Number 3

[nynjanais]

“Page 3 of the autopsy says “…during initial examination in the emergency room, there was no rigor and lividity was at a minimum and unfixed. Page 4 said there was an endotracheal tube present at the mouth at the time of the examination.

Brigitte mentioned her jaw had dropped, she tried to push it shut and it wouldn’t. Isn’t that a sign of rigor mortis? If there was a tube in her mouth when brought to the hospital they wouldn’t have seen rigor of the jaw? “

Yes that is a sign of rigor mortis and once it is “broken,” particularly early on after a death, it doesn’t entirely return as long as one is manipulating the muscles. So I believe the first morons obscured the presentations by all their efforts at CPR, changing positions etc. Perper doesn’t say there is NO lividity, only that it is minimal. If they had flipped her into a face up position two hours or more before he saw her, that soon after her death, certainly he wouldn’t have seen the same presentation - the same face splotching and chest splotching that the first observers saw.

It doesn’t take much to override initial rigidity as anyone who has worked in a hospital could tell you. If there had been tubes placed and chest compressions, arms flexed and moved and poked and strapped onto a gurney and etc. etc. performed by well meaning EMT’s who had the misinformation that she had perhaps JUST expired, then the entire face, neck chest area would have been rendered fairly pliable again by the time Perper saw her.

It was a messy, messy situation, obfuscated by people trying to cover up their own incompetence or their own sense of guilt for not having checked on her sooner. It was exactly what HKS wanted — confusion.

[Rte66]

Yeah, I know. I wasn’t thinking about how long it was before the ME saw her. The livor would have been “new” if that’s what BN/Tas saw - and not fixed.

I was just thinking “fixed,” which it wouldn’t have been - if lividity is what it was.

[Abbalybisabba]

They are asking for someone to step up and ‘fight fire with fire’. I hope someone does, and these jerks are indicted and disbarred.

---

Me too!

[Rte66]

Thank you - and I will do the same for you!

{{{Huggss}}}

[Irish Eyes]

Mark

[Abbalybisabba]

Thanks. That gives me a better picture.

[Pepper777]

” as long as she doesn’t do a sudden jump to HOwie’s side like she did with Joran van der sloot “

Wow! Are you serious? I had no idea that Greta went to the Joran’s side. Natalee’s Mom must have been devasted by Greta’s actions.

Until Anna’s death, I had basically stopped watching almost all cable news programs. Politics had become too despressing - especially after the last election. I can’t take watching the rats gloat. ;(

I get almost all my news here on FR and talk radio.

[Abbalybisabba]

I don’t remember that in the several re-enactments, but I may have missed some. :)

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but in this re-enactment the ET staffer is on her side. And Taz is near the bed on the computer, with her back to the bed. (I know, I know, who knows which pieces are true.)

Taz’s re-enactment video #2 (No mention of Birgitte in this one)

Commentator: “When Anna looked disturbingly still, Taz moved to the other side of the bed to check on her.” Taz: “And I walked around, and I looked, and Anna wasn’t moving. And I looked over and I said, Anna, Anna, are you ok, are you awake? And I got no response. And that’s when I turned her over and I looked and said Anna, Anna are you ok?” She was unresponsive. She was not breathing.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLUbssm5cU

[kcw2007]

Hi Rte66,

It makes me sad that you can’t have your usual Easter “treats”! :(

We don’t usually have lamb or vichyssoise for Easter, bc I am in the South, but if there is ANY chance you are nearby, I would be happy to bring you something special for Easter!! PM me if you are near the AL/FL Gulf Coast, OK?!

Happy Easter!

Kim

[Abbalybisabba]

Let me correct that - “seemed to be on her side.” From this re-enactment, it would seem ANS was on her side facing away from Taz. If Brigitte came in through the sitting room, ANS would have been facing her, yes?

If going by this...

[kcw2007]

OMG!! Is this freakin’ true??? But there was no indication of an IV in the hotel room, per ME or POLICE investigation??? If so, this is ABSOLUTELY INSANE...and beyond criminal!! I would like to know if there is any evidence of the IV in the hotel room (although I wouldn’t doubt it)..esp since ‘they’ were so insistent that she travel while possibly very sick with the ‘Flu’, Detox Process, or whatever...just to get a freakin’ boat! This whole debacle just OOZES wrong-doing!! And the thoughts of wrong-doing it invokes to me are mind-numbingly sad and frightening...

[Rte66]

Oh, how sweet of you! Nope, I’m not near you, but I truly appreciate the offer and the kind thoughts!

LOL, I am Southern, but lamb and vichyssoise are two things I like for Easter. No family, so ham and the all the trimmings aren’t too practical for me, but I used to do them.

Last year, I did all kinds of old-fashioned German things, a kind of Paschal cheese that was very good and several different kinds of Easter Egg bread - with the colored eggs braided into them.

The year before, I thought I was making a wonderful Greek Easter lamb phyllo casserole - lots of my favorite things went into it. Hours of prep - and it was terrible. Totally tasteless, with all this good stuff in it!

I have a pretty bunch of cut Dutch iris for my “table” - don’t actually have a table, all my things are in storage - but I love iris. And I do have a lamb patty to grill, lol. I have things in the freezer I can stick in the oven, so it’ll be OK. Happy Easter to you!

[Pepper777]

” As time passes, Brigette disappears in the telling of the story.”

Other than Rita of MSNBC, I don’t think Brigitte was hardly ever mentioned. I wonder how Rita found her? Like her or hate her, she does seem to have a way of getting the story. Guess its all of her sources. ;)

Brigitte had so much information to offer, but was wisked away to the Bahamas on the ‘Cracker’. Her description about Anna’s jaw would have been helpful in determining the time of death. Even Moe, who appeared on several shows, failed to mention Brigitte, which was strange.

Thanks for understanding what I meant about the blood settling on her chest/face. I need to go back and read the autopsy to see if it mentions if Anna was found on lying on her back or stomach. Maybe its not all that important what time she died. But one thing is clear, for whatever reason, HKS was gone when she was found dead. Shrug.

[kcw2007]

ROFLMAO...and YOU are reading this thread “WHY”??

Just curious, WhiteGuy! LOL

[kcw2007]

WhiteGuy,

When you say we need to get some help, you have NO IDEA how correct you are!! In fact, I need more help than I care to list here. But to start with, are you licensed and bonded to do construction or ‘handyman’ work? In particular, are you able to hang or install both vinyl and cement (Hardie)siding? Because I absolutely need to get the siding on my house replaced before I even THINK about the other things I need help with!!

However, after the siding is done, I will definitely need someone to help with some indoor painting. After the painting is done, I want to replace my upstairs carpet with hardwood flooring!! How much do you charge, WhiteGuy?? Also, what area of the country are you in? Do you travel for special jobs? You just seem like someone I could work with, since you are ‘out there’ looking for business and also seem to be genuinely concerned about posters on a blog, even though it has nothing to do with home improvement. I love your postitive ‘Go get them’ attitude, and if your schedule permits, would like to get an estimate from you. Like I mentioned, I only want to focus on the siding as a first project. Please let me know when you will be able to provide an estimate. Thank you!!

[windchime]

Please keep reading. That was a potential explanation for what Tas was talking about giving ANS ‘water’, but it wouldn’t go. I thought it was a good one. It was the only rational explanation at the time and was long before Dr. Perper issued the autopsy report.

If you check post #261 it addresses the needle puncture marks and #308 further explores their presence.

Annaland is the land of ‘what ifs’.

[kcw2007]

I think Thompson and the Shelleys should just throw out HKS’s belongings so the Bahamians can sell them on Ebay!! Hopefully, there will be some ‘personal items’ and video tapes, so that HKS will know EXACTLY how it feels to be taken advantage of, and how humiliating it is to be exposed by people (exactly like he did to Anna). At first, I thought I would LOVE to see his diaries, but NOW, I think they would be even more BORING than a KE ‘sex tell-all’ book!! LOL

[windchime]

I wish Rita would chase HKS like she has some of her other target subjects. LOL. Can’t you just picture it?

Hers is the only interview I saw with Brigette. Credit is due for that, whether we can make sense of the jumble of stories, or not.

[Pepper777]

” Wow, I just read this. If Anna died face down an hour or two earlier, that would certainly explain the incipient lividity, the purple blotches on her face and chest, they were in the dependent position and so the blood had a chance to begin pooling there. The longer they worked on her the more they would have disturbed the beginning rigidity. Very confusing for anyone arriving on the scene even 30 min later. “”

Thanks for your excellent reply. It sure explains the blood pooling on her chest and face. Most of the interviews were confusing because the implication was that Anna was found on her back, which sure didn’t explain how she could have lividity on the chest and face. Tasmar’s admission of turning Anna over and onto her back finally explains the pooling of her blood on her chest.

Additionally it appears she was covered up from head to toe, which would have held in body heat and further confused the time of death. Anna may have been dead for a couple of hours, or more, before Brigitte or Taz uncovered her. Both Brigitte and Tasmar’s description of Anna’s jaw and tongue, are possibly signs of rigor.

Which raises the question - how important is the time of death in the equation? Imho, it should be very important. But according to Perper, Anna’s death was nothing but an unfortunate accident and was not related Daniels death, so all is well in la la land. ;( ;(

[Pepper777]

“” He’s representing Howard *personally* - he’s HKS’s personal lawyer - Leroy will be to Howie what Howie was to Anna, get it? “”

I seriously can’t believe all the POWER being put together by this unnamed person. Good grief! Its almost like the twilight zone. How can Larry or Virgie fight this war machine??