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Posted on 03/23/2007 11:44:31 AM PDT by Eleutheria5

Squarebarb:

There were some of us including GOPpoet who were thinking of starting a writer's thread here on FR. There's a horse thread, a football thread, a Hobbit Hole thread, so why not a thread for us writers?

And mainly sticking to fiction otherwise the discussion tends toward politicsa iinstead of the craft of writing.

Okay Eleutheria5, YOU start the thread."

Eleutheria5:

On it. Could use some help from someone who knows how to do HTTP and other techy stuff, though. Tried to learn, but drat that right hemisphere dominance we creative folks have. I've actually been running a board on the aol writers' club since 1996 called Conservative Writers' Club. Mostly it simply fights flame wars with liberal writers, though, and all the conservative contributors, including me, burn out. It'd be great to get away from that and just swap ideas with people who DON'T wish every one of us a flaming death.

(Excerpt) Read more at freerepublic.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature
KEYWORDS: conservativewriters; creativecommunity; righters
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To: Oberon; squarebarb; JamesP81
I wanted to come back to Smeagol. I don't know if this happens to anyone else, but sometimes a character forces himself into your story and if you are not careful, he may over run it.

Actually, that happened to Margaret Mitchell. In her original drafts, Scarlett was a supporting character.

I think that happened to Tolkien as well. I think Smeagol forced himself into the story. In his letters books, he writes about this scene: This is when Smeagol comes back from making his deal with Shelob. From the novel: "For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they behold an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of his youth, an old starved pitiable thing."

Tolkien writes a letter explaining he had to make a tough decision at this point of the story. If Smeagol did repent, then the entire book would change and become about the redemption of Smeagol. That was not the book he set out to write, so he had to write the confrontation with Sam about "sneaking" to keep the book on track.

I think Tolkien was generally fond of Smeagol and it certainly seems to me that he was having a great time writing him - for he is one of the funniest characters in literature - so richly drawn that he is one I looked forward to seeing the most in the movies (and Jackson did not disappoint).

In the novel I am working on now, I have to watch the Jeb Stuart character. He is just so much fun to write that if I'm not careful, the book will become about him.

441 posted on 04/25/2007 11:34:06 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: carton253
In the novel I am working on now, I have to watch the Jeb Stuart character. He is just so much fun to write that if I'm not careful, the book will become about him.

I have a character like that in my screenplay. About two-thirds of the way through Act II I physically ship Oswald away and out of the setting, for just that reason. (Of course the putative reason is that Offa had died and therefore Oswald is no longer persona non grata at the Mercian court.)

442 posted on 04/25/2007 11:42:41 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Eleutheria5
Here you are fluent in Hebrew... and here I am unable to converse...

Since the classes are conducted in Hebrew and I get about 60% of what is being said, all I can give you is my understanding of verb tenses as of today. Tomorrow, it may change.

Neefal is a form, I use when I want to speak in passive voice. The package was sent.

Pe'al is what I use when I change the form from passive to active. I sent the package.

I do it on that exam and it is counted right... hot dog for carton!

443 posted on 04/25/2007 11:44:33 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: carton253; Eleutheria5

Question: Do Israeli girls converse in Shebrew?


444 posted on 04/25/2007 11:46:24 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon
I totally rewrote a play when that happened and gave this minor character the lead. It was a much better.

Now, please explain to me about the Mercian court.

445 posted on 04/25/2007 11:48:10 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: Oberon
LOL! I was approached at a bus stop and these two teenagers realized I was American and said “how you doing” but without the Joey Tribioni inflexion. I spent the time until the bus came teaching them how to say it right.
446 posted on 04/25/2007 11:50:39 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: Eleutheria5
Last post about language tonight.

What I have been trying to say (not very well) is that your understanding of the verb tenses is more correct than mine.

You speak it fluently and I don't. Heck, if you were sitting next to me in class, I would be copying your homework. :>)

447 posted on 04/25/2007 11:54:47 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: carton253
Now, please explain to me about the Mercian court.

It's just a literary device in my screenplay...a mechanism to get Oswald to leave. His story is that he is a younger son of a Mercian earl in Britain in the latter part of the 8th century. He's brash, smart, hedonistic, a wiseacre, and an utter pain in the neck to responsibile folks...but he's good with weapons. He makes himself unpopular with Offa, king of Mercia, when he's caught in a compromising position with a younger female cousin of the king. To A) preserve Oswald's life, B) discipline the young man, and C) get him out from underfoot, Oswald's father packs him off to a distant island monastery where he won't be able to be much of a nuisance.

That island is Iona, the setting (and title) of my story. Oswald becomes one of several influences on my protagonist.

448 posted on 04/25/2007 11:57:14 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon
Well, since I enjoyed Nutworth so much, you must let me read your screenplay when you are ready.

I will send you my email.

449 posted on 04/25/2007 12:05:52 PM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: carton253

Sure. I provide no guarantees that you won’t want that 90 minutes of your life back, however.


450 posted on 04/25/2007 12:09:03 PM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon

does Sowald then become a mentor? All heroes have to have a mentor, they say.


451 posted on 04/25/2007 3:06:35 PM PDT by squarebarb
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To: squarebarb

Sporry I meant Oswald.


452 posted on 04/25/2007 3:07:01 PM PDT by squarebarb
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To: carton253

That’s an astute comment about Smeagol/Gollum.

Truly you can have minor characters who run away with the story.

The nest balance I knowq between contrasting chracters is the Aubrey Maturin series. Both Jack and Stephen hold your interest. Jack being the hero and Stephen the anti-hero.


453 posted on 04/25/2007 3:08:38 PM PDT by squarebarb
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To: squarebarb
does Oswald then become a mentor? All heroes have to have a mentor, they say.

Oswald is more of a sidekick, really, though is a mentor of sorts...he teaches the protagonist how to fight. The protagonist's real mentor, however, is Ian. Picture John Rhys-Davies in a monk's robe, hunched over a scriptorium table.

454 posted on 04/25/2007 3:12:18 PM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon

A great picture!


455 posted on 04/26/2007 6:57:10 AM PDT by squarebarb
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To: squarebarb
I have a busy day today --- one of my rare trips to the big city --- and then a social event this evening --- all very rare for me as I am a confirmed hermit --- but let's stay on the 'hero' subject.

I still haven't had time to read all the comments but I will. Whoever has the ping list will you ping?

456 posted on 04/26/2007 7:00:51 AM PDT by squarebarb
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To: squarebarb

From my screenplay:

INT / DAY / REFECTORY

Trygve and Ian sit eating.

TRYGVE: How do you eat so little and stay so fat?

IAN: It’s a gift.


457 posted on 04/26/2007 7:29:36 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: squarebarb

I’ll do it.


458 posted on 04/26/2007 7:45:58 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: Al Gator; carton253; CharlesWayneCT; Corin Stormhands; Dolphy; Dr.Zoidberg; Eleutheria5; ...
We are talking about what makes a good hero.

I am reading my second Arthur Hailey novel and I don't like it because the people who I am reading about are not interesting and quite frankly I just don't care what happens to them. Now, I am impatiently reading the final 50 or so pages to be done with it. But if they all should die in a horrendous accident. Who cares? Not me.

There has to be the "likeability" factor involved, something that gets the reader interested in his trials and tribulations and personal struggles. For me, that means that a the hero must possess something that will allow me to identify with him and root for him. Most likely he challenges me in my own life no matter how briefly. Really strong heros usually do for a long time after I finish the book.

Please join in the conversation and let us all know who your literary heros are and why and what you think makes a good hero!

459 posted on 04/26/2007 7:58:16 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
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To: carton253

Where have all the heroes gone? Actually, literary heroes are out of style. In their place are the narrator who doesn’t even know his own mind and the other characters who are scenery. In drama, where several characters share in attempting to justify themselves, none are heroes—heroes don’t have much to say.


460 posted on 04/26/2007 8:05:15 AM PDT by RightWhale (3 May '07 3:14 PM)
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