Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Righters' Club
Free Republic discussion ^

Posted on 03/23/2007 11:44:31 AM PDT by Eleutheria5

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 361-380381-400401-420 ... 561-568 next last
To: RightWhale

That is different than fiction writing (which is what I am discussing). If there is a good reason for the passive voice to be used...then by all means... it should be used.


381 posted on 04/21/2007 8:10:03 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 378 | View Replies]

To: carton253

If the author embeds science writing in his novel it should sound grammatically authentic. It’s not just a rule, it’s a maxim.


382 posted on 04/21/2007 8:14:24 AM PDT by RightWhale (3 May '07 3:14 PM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 381 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

okay.


383 posted on 04/21/2007 8:17:38 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 382 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

I use the technique in nearly every novel I write because it seems I’m now doomed to write novels which work off of science themes. The occasional scene for transition works well in passive voice, also.


384 posted on 04/21/2007 9:38:12 AM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 382 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN

It’s one technique that needs to be mastered in modern novel writing if the author is to be authoritative in the modern technological society. The machinery is brought under control (passive!) and humanity is reasserted (passive!).


385 posted on 04/21/2007 10:07:47 AM PDT by RightWhale (3 May '07 3:14 PM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 384 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
I tried to use that very methodology in Evil Interrupted, where the theme centers upon connections in ESCR, cloning, and abortion. It allowed me to make the novel short enough to be read during a long flight or a city-to-city train ride. After years of researching the topics, condensation of the technology was challenging, to say the least.

A non-fiction book available on the Net was my way of offering the more technical materials found during my research, for readers interested in those topics. [ http://weneedtalk.blogspot.com is a link to the links in PDF or html, if anyone is interested in reading the thing now after these years it has been being downloaded for free ]

386 posted on 04/21/2007 11:21:42 AM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 385 | View Replies]

To: carton253

Yes, that is very flat. There are no details; no smell, touch, etc. Boring. Besides, a ‘jumble’ and a ‘blur’ are not at all the same thing.

Well I looked through some of the Psalms and found no passive voice as far as I could tell so I suppose the translators shifted to active. Although how that would work I don’t know. Do you have any examples?


387 posted on 04/21/2007 11:22:41 AM PDT by squarebarb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 380 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN

Passive voice certainly has its uses, As I mentioned earlier, is shortens things.

Carton you must be about ready for bed there.


388 posted on 04/21/2007 11:24:17 AM PDT by squarebarb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 384 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb

As soon as I prove the Ottomans are not Europe’s sick old man.


389 posted on 04/21/2007 11:38:33 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 388 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb
I don't know enough to about Biblical Hebrew to comment on it. Maybe the neefal verb belongs only to Modern Hebrew and the desire for Passive voice only since the turn of the 20th century.

God should always be written about in the active voice IMHO.

390 posted on 04/21/2007 11:40:40 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 387 | View Replies]

To: carton253

“God written about in the active voice”

And it certainly seems to be in my reading. ‘He who made heaven and earth’ is a repeated phrase.

Ah, Turkey, ‘the sick man of Europe’! And you have to prove otherwise? Your studies are indeed demanding.


391 posted on 04/21/2007 11:49:58 AM PDT by squarebarb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 390 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb

But the Ottoman Empire was at least had gorgeous palaces, at least in the writings of Dorothy Dunnett.


392 posted on 04/21/2007 11:51:06 AM PDT by squarebarb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 391 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb

And under 6,000 words too - which is the hard part. I am trying to lose 3,000 words. Editing is my friend.


393 posted on 04/21/2007 11:53:48 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 391 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb

I also managed to rewrite 25 pages of my novel using all the tricks I have learned here. What a difference! And I translated some Arabic as well. I have been busy.


394 posted on 04/21/2007 11:56:48 AM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 392 | View Replies]

To: carton253
Well, I've cut 2,000 words but the paper is weaker for it. Oh, well... I didn't make the rules.

It is bedtime here in Tel Aviv...

Talk to you all tomorrow.

395 posted on 04/21/2007 12:26:05 PM PDT by carton253 (I've cried tears and stayed the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 393 | View Replies]

To: carton253

Sleep well.

As for the 2000 words -— it’s just a paper, you can tell yourself.


396 posted on 04/21/2007 2:29:33 PM PDT by squarebarb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 395 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb

So far, nobody’s left any. But the book’s been out there only two months.


397 posted on 04/21/2007 7:20:58 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies]

To: carton253

“Let’s talk verb tenses. It is interesting that I am learning Hebrew and Arabic as part of my post-graduate degree, and I have been told by my profs that the passive voice (especially in Hebrew ((nefal verbs)) is writing at the highest level. This runs counter to everything I have been told when writing English. In fact, Word Perfect, as part of its spell/grammer check would alert you to how many sentences you constructed in the passive voice so you could correct them. “

Knowing Hebrew (rabbinical & Biblical) fluently, and being familiar with, but rusty at Arabic, I don’t know what your professors are talking about. English has a problem with the passive voice because it involves extra, unnecessary verbiage. For example, “I have been told by my profs,” rather than “My profs have told me.” Of course, that problem is not as acute in Hebrew and Arabic, because they don’t have those gosh-darned auxiliary verbs that English has. You’d say “hugadti,” or “Qoola lii” rather than “I have been told.” But the other source of extra verbiage would still be there, to wit, the conversion of the subject into the object of a prepositional phrase, to wit: “hugadti al ydei profesorai” and “Qoola lii min ustaathai” for “by my professors.” If you have a hidden subject, that is not a problem in any of the three languages, but the extra auxiliary verbs still persist in English. “I have been told” for “hugadti” and Qoola lii”.


398 posted on 04/21/2007 7:33:46 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 370 | View Replies]

To: carton253

“I am learning modern Hebrew, which, the professor assures the class, is not the same language as ancient Hebrew.
I know students who can read ancient Hebrew but must start all over again to learn Modern Hebrew.”

I started with the ancient language, but didn’t find the jump into modern all that difficult, except that Israelis talk too fast for me to follow, and there are some new terms like “mechona” (car) and “masreda” (office) that I had to get used to.


399 posted on 04/21/2007 7:37:26 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 374 | View Replies]

To: Eleutheria5
If you read facsimiles of newspapers/diaries of the 19th Century, you’ll see that the passive voice was then the goal. We’ve sped up the pace with a preference for the active voice—but I don’t know when the trend began.

I don’t know nothin’ ‘bout ‘em Middle Eastern ways ‘a talkin’.

:-)

400 posted on 04/21/2007 7:40:35 PM PDT by bannie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 398 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 361-380381-400401-420 ... 561-568 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson