[Knitting A Conundrum]

OK. I move back into a house I had rented for five years. The fun flower bed I had planted on the south side of the house, under a bay window, had two sickly rhodenderons, some snap dragons, some dead (evidently rounded up) grass, dandilions and had sunk a whole brick's worth into the ground on one side. The oak tree we had planted 8 years ago looked like it did the day we left, sickly, struggling to live. The back yard has one tree stump and lost most of the grass in the center of the back yard. A yard that is mostly a blank slate waiting to be gardened.

So, as winter has given way to early spring, I have rebuilt the garden wall and leveled it out, so the slope to one side is now three bricks deep to the other side's one brick, and added another row. The rhodenderons, which don't grow well here anyway are history. The weeds are pulled. I need to add more soil. I want this bed to be a rose garden now. It gets lots of light. The soil is a little clay-ey at points, but not totally. I raked up all the ugly stone a tenant had put on one half the bed. It's ready to be amended.

Anybody got advice about rose bed soil?

[Quix]

Please keep us posted. I have no great insights on roses. Jackson Perkins seems to have a lot of good varieties.

Anyone nuts about heirloom tomatoes? Just ordered umpteen dollars worth of seeds. If you're in the 4 corners NM area, let me know, should have lots of fruit! LOL.

[JRios1968]

I like cheese...

[LibFreeOrDie]

Hi,

Roses must have excellent drainage. They do better in sandy soil than they do in peaty or clay soil. You said you've got clay; you'll need to replace that soil, or build raised beds.

You live in Idaho? Check this USDA Hardiness Zone Map. Your zone will determine how hardy the roses have to be. (For example, I live in southern New Hampshire, Zone 5b. I can't depend on having any plant labeled zone 6 or higher survive the winter.)

http://images.meredith.com/bhg/pdf/gardening/hardiness/idaho.pdf

Go with "own root roses", not grafted ones. The roses in most catalogs, such as J&P, are grafted. The graft is very sensitive to cold.

Don't bother with hybrid teas, unless you want to spend time in the fall burying or "cocooning" the plants. And then there's no guarantee. Go with roses labeled "hardy."

This online catalog (in Oregon) has some examples of hardy and own root roses. You may be able to find a selection at a local nursery. They say all their roses are own root, so maybe their hybrid teas would survive.

http://www.heirloomroses.com/

Roses must have full sun for at least 6 hours a day. More is better for abundance of blooms.

[KoRn]

You can't forget Papaver Somniferum. No flower garden is complete without it! ;^)

/sarc

[Judith Anne]

Oh, THANK you for starting this thread! We had a 3 rail white equine fence put up across the 130 feet of our front yard road border, and the man who put it up also dug holes about every 8 feet between posts for roses, I was thinking of red climbers, thought it'd be pretty over the fence. I was wanting something that blooms like crazy all summer long...

[this_ol_patriot]

Own root is right, Meidiland. Knockout or any hardy shrub-hedge own root type. I grow em in development soil, i.e. the stuff the contractor leaves behind after he pushes the topsoil away, I just amended the planting holes a bit.

Planted a dozen "Red Freedom" hedge roses bought bareroot from Springhill the first spring after I moved in, they grew to 4ft and bloomed from June through November till a killing frost. The second year they were 6ft monsters with some canes an inch or more across. I pruned heavy the following spring and they still got huge. I put Meidilands around my birdbath and Knockouts along the driveway. All bloom now from May till killing frost and some even a bit beyond if we have an Indian summer.

Black spot and Aphids are the devil though. Don't water the leaves in fact I don't water them at all if we get biweekly or so rain and they do fine. Spraying with a solution of dish detergent and baking soda seems to help with both Aphids and Black Spot.

[dandelion]

Me me ME!! Ooh, I'm so glad to see a roses thread. I have about 30 roses planted around our little ranch, and I'm working on more. I ordered them from Chamblee's roses in Tyler TX, and I have been thrilled with them.

http://www.chambleeroses.com

There was a time when I would have never even attempted roses; I thought they had to be pruned and sprayed and babied. I'm totally lazy and not really good at gardening, so anything that I plant had better be "bullet proof". But after I "discovered" heirlooms and own-root roses, it opened up a whole new world for me in the garden...

I specifically bought heirloom and own-root roses that have been designated as "earth-kind" for Texas by Texas A&M horticulturalists. (That sounds like an "eco-nut" thing, but it simply means the roses do well without spraying or too much water). They have done magnificently, even in a drought and without a lot of attention. I did virtually nothing to prepare the soil, only fertilized once (with Miracle Gro) and still they grew! VERY disease resistant and hardy!

Here is my rose list so far:

Shrub, Climber and Landscape Roses

Belinda's Dream
Climbing Pinkie (4)
Reve D' Or
Dublin Bay
Sombruiel (mislabelled as "La Biche")
Buff Beauty
Climbing Cecile Brunner
Cherokee Rose
Mermaid (2)
Seafoam
Mutabilis
New Dawn
Love
Monteczuma
Climbing Joseph's Coat
Mrs. Oakley Fisher
and a GIANT unknown gloriously red grandiflora planted the gardener before me...

AND IN THE OTHER CORNER:

Teas, "Tea Types" and Hybrid Tea Roses (In the enclosed front "Rose Garden")

Heirloom
Baroness Henriette De Snoy
Maggie
Peach Beauty
Granada
Sweet Vivian
Autumn Damask
Sun Flare
Knock Out

I'm very excited about this year's "crop" of roses, since we are entering our third year after planting and I am hoping the recent rains will bring plenty of beautiful blooms...

As for heirloom tomatoes, I have three I am planting this year: Arkansas Traveler, Cherokee Purple, and Yellow Pear. I had great success with Yellow Pear, but I think it was simply too hot for Brandywine last year :P This year I'm going to test Arkansas Traveler and Cherokee Purple to see if they'll produce in the terrific Texas heat!

Hey, could we start "The Rose Garden" ping list?

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~A Sticker Bush Thread !!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~;0)
1. Weed-Killer~~~Roto~Till~~~Weed~Killer Again~~~

2. Trench center-line of bed hoe-depth or better,,,
Your County AG. guy can get an accurate PH of the soil,,,
the lil'pills/etc. are Voo-Do-Do IMHO,,,starting from scratch member,,,go up or down to suite + - ,,,then,,,

3. "Stop And Smell The Roses"(American Rose Center)...;0)*****************************************;0)

[Varda]

I love roses too although I've killed a lot of them. I'll have to second that comment about drainage. Since I dug a six inch drench around the beds; they are doing loads better. If I could do it again I'd do raised beds.

I'm zone 5/6 and some roses reputed to be tender have done well here.
Eden (Pierre de Ronsard /Meilland)
Heritage (Austin)
Teasing Georgia (Austin)
Gertrude Jekyll (Austin)
Sea Foam (shrub)
Leda (painted Damask)
Scarlet Meidiland
Complicata (Gallica)

However for toughness (provided you have drainage) and ease of care nothing beats the Rugosa roses.

Jackson and Perkins new hybrid tea "Pope John Paul II" is getting good reviews too. I'm going to try a bed of that with "Our Lady of Guadalupe" as an accent . "Our Lady" is a blooming machine here but it does get winter damage and takes awhile to get out of it.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

American Rose Society's Top Roses (note, though, they don't all do equally in all locations)



The Top 20 in each Category

Species

* R. banksiae banksiae Sp, white, double, 1807 9.2
* R. banksiae lutea Sp, light yellow, double, 1824 9.1
* R. rugosa alba Sp, white, single, 1811 9.1
* R. rugosa rubra Sp, mauve, single, 1784 9.1
* R. setigera Sp, deep pink, 1810 9.1
* R. gallica Sp, deep pink, before 1867 9.0
* R. gallica versicolor (Rosa Mundi) Sp, pink blend,
semi-double, 1581 9.0
* R. moschata Sp, white, 1540 8.9
* R. rugosa Sp, mauve, 1784 8.9
* Kiftsgate Sp, white, 5 petals, 1954 8.8
* R. glauca Sp, medium pink, 1789 8.8
* R. gallica officinalis (Apothecary's Rose) Sp, deep pink,
semi-double, before 1600 8.7
* R. roxburghii Sp, medium pink, double, 1820 8.7
* R. hugonis Sp, medium yellow, single, 1899 8.6
* R. virginiana Sp, medium pink, before 1807 8.6
* R. laevigata Sp, white, single, 1759 8.5
* R. roxburghii normalis Sp, light pink, single, 1862 8.5
* R. eglanteria Sp, light pink, single, 1753 8.4
* R. spinosissima Sp, white, 1753 8.4
* R. banksiae Sp, white, 1811 8.3

Floribundas and Polyanthas

* Marie Pavie Pol, white, double, 1888 8.9
* Nicole (KORicole) F, white, 35 petals, 1985 8.9
* Orange Morsday Pol, orange blend, 1956 8.9
* Mrs R.M.. Finch Pol, medium pink, double, 1923 8.8
* Bridal White F, white, double, 1970 8.7
* Iceberg F, white, double, 1958 8.7
* La Marne Pol, pink blend, single, 1915 8.7
* Lavaglut F, dark red, 24 petals, 1978 8.7
* Lullaby Pol, white, 75 petals, 1953 8.7
* Poulsen's Pearl F, light pink, 5 petals, 1949 8.7
* Sexy Rexy F, medium pink, double, 1984 8.7
* The Fairy Pol, light pink, double, 1932 8.7
* Escapade F, mauve, 12 petals, 1967 8.6
* Europeana F, dark red, 25-30 petals, 1968 8.6
* Hannah Gordon F, pink blend, 35 petals, 1983 8.6
* Travemunde F, medium red, double, 1968 8.6
* Verdun Pol, medium red, double, 1918 8.6
* White Pet Pol, white, double, 1879 8.6
* Iceberg, Cl F, white, 1968 8.5
* Perle d'Or Pol, yellow blend, very double, 1884 8.5

Old Garden Roses

* Reve d'Or N, medium yellow, double, 1869 9.3
* Old Red Moss M, medium red, very double 9.1
* Marchesa Boccella HP, light pink, double, 1842 9.0
* Alba Semi-plena A, white, 8 petals, before 1867 8.9
* Alika HGal, medium red, semi-double, 1906 8.9
* Great Maiden's Blush A, white, double 8.9
* Mme Alfred Carriere N, white, double, 1879 8.9
* Mme Hardy D, white, double, 1832 8.9
* Mrs B. R. Cant T, medium pink, double, 1901 8.9
* Mutabilis HCh, yellow blend, single 8.9
* R. x alba A, white, double, before 1867 8.9
* Complicata HGal, pink blend, single 8.8
* Lamarque N, white, double, 1830 8.8
* Mme Plantier A, white, very double, 1835 8.8
* Rose de Rescht P, deep pink, very double 8.8
* Sombreuil Cl T, white, double, 1850 8.8
* Celine Forestier N, light yellow, double, 1858 8.7
* Celsiana D, light pink, semi-double, before 1867 8.7
* Cramoisi Supérieur HCh, medium red, double, 1832 8.7
* Crested Moss M, medium pink, very full, 1827 8.7

Hybrid Teas and Grandifloras

* Irish Elegance HT, orange blend, 5 petals, 1905 8.9
* Touch of Class HT, orange pink, 30-35 petals, 1986 9.9
* Elina HT, light yellow, 30-35 petals, 1984 8.6
* Marijke Koopman HT, medium pink, 25 petals, 1979 8.6
* Olympiad HT, medium red, 30-35 petals, 1982 8.6
* Pristine HT, white, 28 petals, 1978 8.6
* Silver Jubilee HT, pink blend, 33 petals, 1978 8.6
* Captain Thomas Cl HT, white, single, 1935 8.5
* Dainty Bess HT, light pink, 4-11 petals, 1925 8.5
* Dainty Bess, Cl Cl HT, light pink, 4-11 petals 1935 8.5
* Kardinal HT, medium red, 30-35 petals, 1986 8.5
* Baronne Edmond de Rothschild HT, red blend, 40 petals, 1968 8.4
* Double Delight HT, red blend, 30-35 petals, 1977 8.4
* Elizabeth Taylor HT, deep pink, 30-35 petals, 1985 8.4
* Gold Medal Gr, medium yellow, 30-35 petals, 1982 8.4
* Louise Estes HT, pink blend, 35 petals, 1991 8.3
* Mister Lincoln HT, dark red, 35 petals, 1964 8.3
* Mrs Oakley Fisher HT, deep yellow, single, 1921 8.3
* Dublin HT, medium red, 35-40 petals, 1982 8.2
* Earth Song Gr, deep pink, 25030 petals, 1975 8.2

Miniatures & Mini-Floras

* Jean Kenneally Min, apricot blend, 22 petals, 1984 9.1
* Jeanne Lajoie Cl Min, medium pink, 40 petals, 1975 9.1
* Irresistible Min, white, 43 petals, 1989 9.0
* Minnie Pearl Min, pink blend, double, 1982 9.0
* Pierrine Min, orange pink, 40 petals, 1988 9.0
* Giggles Min, medium pink, 18 petals, 1987 8.8
* Gourmet Popcorn Min, white, 6-14 petals, 1986 8.7
* Rainbow's End Min, yellow blend, 35 petals, 1984 8.7
* Robin Red Breast MinFl, red blend, single, 1983 8.7
* Baby Grand Min, medium pink, 25 petals, 1994 8.6
* Angel Pink Cl Min, orange pink, double, 1987 8.5
* Magic Carrousel Min, red blend, double, 1972 8.5
* My Sunshine Min, medium yellow, single, 1986 8.5
* Peggy "T" Min, medium red, 5 petals, 1988 8.5
* Snow Bride Min, white, 20 petals, 1982 8.5
* Little Artist Min, red blend, semi-double, 1982 8.4
* Millie Walters Min, orange pink, 45 petals, 1983 8.4
* Rise 'n' Shine Min, medium yellow, 35 petals, 1977 8.
* 4 Rise 'n' Shine Cl. Min, medium yellow, 1990 8.4
vRuby Pendant Min, mauve, 28 petals, 1979 8.4

Climbers and Hybrid Wichuranas

* Democracie LCl, dark red, 1935 8.9
* Royal Sunset LCl, apricot blend, 20 petals, 1960 8.9
* Clair Matin LCl, medium pink, 15 petals, 1960 8.8
* Dublin Bay LCl, medium red, 25 petals, 1975 8.6
* New Dawn LCl, light pink, 35-40 petals, 1930 8.6
* Altissimo LCl, medium red, 7 petals, 1966 8.5
* City of York LCl, white, 15 petals, 1945 8.5
* Compassion LCl, orange pink, 36 petals, 1972 8.5
* Newport Fairy HWich, pink blend, single, 1908 8.5
* Rosarium Ueteresen LCl, deep pink, very double, 1977 8.5
* America LCl, orange pink, 43 petals, 1976 8.3
* Ramblin' Red LCl, medium red, 2001 8.3
* Belle Portugaise LCl, light pink, semi-double, 1903 8.2
* Don Juan LCl, dark red, 30-35 petals, 1958 8.2
* Parade LCl, deep pink, 33 petals, 1953 8.2
* Pierre de Ronsard LCl, pink blend, 40-55 petals, 1987 8.2
* Rhonda LCl, medium pink, double, 1968 8.2
* Fourth of July LCl, red blend, 10-16 petals, 1999 8.1
* Galway Bay LCl, orange pink, 1966 8.1
* Pink Perpetue LCl, medium pink, 32 petals, 1965 8.1

Shrubs

* Dortmund HKor, medium red, single, 1955 9.1
* Eddie's Crimson HMoy, medium red, semi-double, 1956, 9.1
* Henry Hudson HRg, white, 25 petals, 1976 9.0
* Rugosa Magnifica HRg, mauve, double, 1905 9.0
* Surry S, light red, semi-double, 1905 9.0
* Elveshorn S, medium pink, 35 petals, 1985 8.9
* Immensee S, light pink, single, 1983 8.9
* Lyda Rose S, white, single, 1994 8.9
* Sally Holmes S, white, single, 1976 8.9
* William Baffin HKor, deep pink, 20 petals, 1983 8.9
* Gartendirektor Otto Linne S, deep pink, double, 1934 8.8
* Golden Wings S, light yellow, single, 1956 8.8
* John Cabot HKor, medium red, 40 petals, 1978 8.8
* Nevada HMoy, white, single, 1927 8.8
* Penelope HMsk, light pink, semi-double, 1924 8.8
* Robbie Burns S, light pink, 5 petals, 1986 8.8
* Robusta (KORgosa) S, medium red, 5 petals, 1979 8.8
* Roseraie de l'Hay HRg, dark red, double, 1901 8.8
* Ballerina HMsk, medium pink, single, 1937 8.7
* Cornelia HMsk, pink blend, double, 1925 8.7

[Texas_shutterbug]

Me, me, me!

And due to unforeseen circumstances, I pruned too late, so my bushes are going to be very leggy this year. I'm just SICK about it. argggghhhhhhh

[Dumpster Baby]

Anybody else out there nuts about roses?

I have roses that are nuts - insane and evil. My rose bushes are some kind of wild roses that an uncle of mine found in a field in 1935 and took a sample home to his mom, my paternal grandmother. That original rose cutting spread, was transplanted in various states during my dad's Navy career, and lives again in various places around the yard.

These evil roses reach out and try to claw me off the riding lawnmower every time I get near them. I have shredded clothes and scars to prove it. I have counter attacked with pruning shears often, and the roses counter-counter attack even more viciously. They won't die. They can't be killed. I face yet another bloody, bloody summer trying to keep them from ripping the awnings and siding off the house.

[Dante3]

Anyone have suggestions for any plants that grows well in shade?

[SE Mom]

bookmark

[diamond6]

Jackson and Perkins are supposed to be really good quality roses.

[Mama_Bear]

I have no idea about rose bed soil. I just plant my roses with some peat moss mixed into the planting hole, and they seem to do great. I think the land our house is on used to be a dairy however, so it could be the soil is rich in nutriants already.

My roses are all budded out and I am anxiously awaiting the first flush of blossoms. I have:

Miss All American Beauty
Tropicana (one of my favorites - thank you GodBlessUSA for helping me identify it.)
Helena Renaissance
Bridal Pink
American Dream (my favorite red rose.)
Whiskey Mac
Chicago Peace (a bare root I planted last month.)
Midas Touch (a pretty yellow climber)
Sunbright
Century Two

I also have a variety of miniature roses and carpet roses.

Good luck with your rose garden, Knitting A Conundrum. I hope it is a thriving success. :-)

[ken21]

our roses were blooming on xmas day.