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To: MonicaG; WFTR

Monica, you gave some very good insights.

"You've been happily monogamous for 21+ years. What did you do before meeting your spouse to prepare yourself for this relationship?"

Failed at two other marriages, picked myself up, finished college as a single parent.

"What do you wish you had done?"

Wish I had skipped hub #2 altogether.

"What did you do that you wish you hadn't done?"

Retaliate. It sinks you to the low level of another person and compromises your personal integrity.

"If you were single and came to realize that you weren't likely to find someone, how would that change your strategies?"

In a way, this question isn't fair to all personalities. It is easier for 'people' people to meet other people. Persons who are bookish or timid don't meet other people as easily. Guess which kind I am?

Seriously, how do you know you're not happy being single unless you've been married before? Why would you buy land without plans to build? Why wouldn't you trust your judgment enough that your choices would actually delight a lady somewhere down the road?


5 posted on 02/10/2007 12:25:15 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou

Thanks, Froufrou. I'm proud of you from learning from your mistakes and completing college as a single parent!


7 posted on 02/10/2007 12:29:52 PM PST by MonicaG (In hoc signo vinces. The whole world will see justice done.)
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To: Froufrou; MonicaG
Thanks for the reply. These are good thoughts, and I'd like to respond somewhat as I have more time. However, I absolutely have to get a few things done while I have daylight. Again, many thanks. I hope that others can join the discussion.

Bill

12 posted on 02/10/2007 12:41:54 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: Froufrou
Seriously, how do you know you're not happy being single unless you've been married before?

I know that I'm capable of evaluating situations and making judgments about whether they would be an improvement. I think most people have this capability, and I'll give both general and personal examples.

A person can be obese for his/her entire life. He may have never been fit before, but he can still evaluate how he feels, evaluate what medical science has found, evaluate how others have felt, and decide that he'd be better off losing some weight. I'm not saying that weight loss will make his life perfect. The world has plenty of miserable people with great bodies and plenty of happy people who are seriously overweight. The man would still be more likely to be happier if he lost weight.

A person can come from a family where no one has ever had a college degree or a so-called professional job. Just because that person has never been in that situation before doesn't mean that he can't evaluate his current life, evaluate his likely life with a college degree and professional job, and decide that he'd be better off pursuing a professional career path. Again, the world has plenty of miserable people at the tops of their professions and plenty of happy people in humble jobs. That fact doesn't change the fact that any individual can rightly conclude that a degree and better job would make things better.

In my own life, I've found that I'm right much more often than I'm wrong when evaluating changes.

I earned my first master's degree in late 1988 and started my first engineering job in early 1989. For much of my career, I wanted to work as an engineer in a chemical plant or refinery. I had never worked as an engineer in a plant before. I'd visited plants as part of my work as an engineer. I'd been in a plant for a couple of months at a time as an intern/co-op student, but I'd never been in a plant day to day for any long period. Still, I believed that I'd like that work better than I liked being in corporate engineering headquarters, being a consultant, or being an academic.

I didn't get my opportunity until 2002, but when I did get the opportunity, I discovered that I was right. I really do like working in the plant better than working anywhere else in my career. Is it exactly what I expected? No. Is it pretty close? Well yes, it's really fairly close to what I expected and wanted. I learned what I could, made a value judgment, and was right.

As another example, I keep reptiles as pets. I've been interested in reptiles for as long as I can remember. I've wanted them as pets since I was a little kid, but I really didn't know what keeping them entailed. I've begun researching them at various times over the past fifteen years or so. In 2002, I researched pretty heavily and then backed off. In 2005, I researched heavily again and then bought some.

After having them for about a year and a half, I've found that I like them very much. Have things been exactly as I envisioned as I did my research? No, there have been differences. I think that those who write about keeping these animals could explain some things a little more clearly. However, the reality that I'm experiencing is quite close to idea I formed in my head as I read about them. Based on my reading, I've talked myself into considering some species and told myself that I certainly don't want to mess with others. However, they've been the joy that I hoped they'd be.

I know that marriage is bigger than and different from changing one's physical makeup, from changing one's career, or from owning a pet. A relationship would be different in ways that I probably can't imagine, but I see no reason to doubt that I can look at evidence and make good evaluations. I can know that being married would have made me happier than being single has because I can look at the evidence and make good evaluations.

Why wouldn't you trust your judgment enough that your choices would actually delight a lady somewhere down the road?

I realize that everyone is different and that what I like may be very different from what a lady might like. I live in Louisiana where we have no real winter. We'll get a few days in the 20's and maybe a day in the teens every few years. We even get a few snowflakes every few years. I grew up where there were four real seasons. I can remember snow staying in the yard for a month or so at a time back when I was young. I think I'd like to retire to a place where I had four seasons again. Some women around here may never be able to accept that much winter. My dream retirement home might delight her in the summer but be miserable for her after six weeks of snow. If I were in that situation, I would sell the place and look for something else rather than leave her miserable, but selling land after I'd invested myself into that land mentally and emotionally would be tough. That's why I'd be more inclined to wait if I still believed that marriage were likely.

In a way, this question isn't fair to all personalities. It is easier for 'people' people to meet other people. Persons who are bookish or timid don't meet other people as easily. Guess which kind I am?

You are obviously a people person, so you maybe can't imagine looking into the future and seeing a long sting of lonely years ahead. Maybe there would never be a reason for you to prepare for the rest of your life lived alone. For others, that possibility is real. If the question just doesn't apply, then it doesn't apply. I'm not trying to be pushy with it.

Bill

17 posted on 02/10/2007 3:43:16 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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