Tom Brady vs Peyton Manning

[SamAdams76]

Ok, so we have Tom Brady and the New England Patriots playing Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts for the AFC Championship this weekend.

Despite the fact that Tom Brady has gone to and won three Super Bowls in his first five seasons and the fact that Peyton Manning has been to zero Super Bowls in his first EIGHT seasons, the perception is still there that Golden Boy Peyton Manning is the premier quarterback of the NFL.

Why is that? Is it because of all those TV commercials that Peyton Manning is in? Maybe if Peyton did less commercials and concentrated more on football, he'd have been to the Super Bowl by now. Just saying...

Anyway, that's not why I posted this thread. The reason I post this thread is to point out a rather astonishing fact. Tom Brady is now 12-1 in the playoffs for a winning percentage of .923. Does any NFL quarterback even come close to that (and I include Joe Montana and Bart Starr)?

Peyton Manning is 5-6 for a winning percentage of .454.

Now let's say for some inexplicable reason that Tom Brady was to lose every single playoff game for the rest of his career. How long would it take his playoff record to equal that of Peyton Manning's today?

Well for one thing, Brandy and the Pats would have to make the playoff a lot more times and then they would have to lose the first game each and every time. Assuming the Patriots make the playoffs every year for the rest of Brady's career, here is what would need to happen for Brady to "catch up" with where Peyton Manning is today...

2007 - Lose AFC Championship - 12-2 (.857)
2008 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-3 (.800)
2009 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-4 (.750)
2010 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-5 (.706)
2011 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-6 (.667)
2012 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-7 (.632)
2013 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-8 (.600)
2014 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-9 (.571)
2015 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-10 (.545)
2016 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-11 (.522)
2017 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-12 (.500)
2018 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-13 (.480)
2019 - Make playoffs, lose opening round - 12-14 (.462)

Note that it is 12 years later and Brady has now lost 13 consecutive playoff games and STILL, his career playoff winning percentage is a smidgen above that of Peyton Manning today.

I should also mention that Tom Brady will now be 41 years old. Will he even play pro football enough years to lose enough playoff games to match Peyton Manning? That's provided of course that the Pats make the playoffs for each of those 12 years and lose that first game each and ever time. I think it would be easier for Brady to win six more Super Bowls than to achieve that!

So what is all this yip-yip-yapping about Peyton Manning being one of the greatest QBs in NFL history? What is up with all those commercials like he is the Michael Jordan of football or something? Yes, he's good. No doubt about it. He may yet even win a Super Bowl or two, but his best opportunity is THIS YEAR and he's going to have to get past Tom Brady and the Pats this coming weekend.

So far, there is more Dan Marino about Peyton Manning than Joe Montana...or Tom Brady. Not that Joe Montana or Tom Brady would ever have to make a pathetic plea to their hometown fans to keep opposing fans out of the stadium for home games.

Again, not trying to make Peyton Manning out to be a bad guy. I'm sure he's a good guy who opens doors for old ladies, pets neighborhood dogs and gives lollipops to little girls. But there is something about the guy that just gets in my craw. Kind of like the high school jock we all grew up with who always got all the attention because he was annointed "golden boy." Maybe what really annoys me about Peyton is his over-controlling father who just can't stay on the sidelines and cheer like a normal dad. Maybe another thing that annoys me is Peyton's kid brother Eli, the washed-up karaoke singer who deemed himself "too good" to play for the team who drafted him so that he could go to a major market like New York and cash in on more endorsement dollars than he might have gotten in "low-rent" San Diego. Ironically the team he thought he was too good for is kicking butt (just couldn't get past those Patriots though) and doing much better than his precious Giants.

I don't know. Maybe the Mannings represent to me the overprivileged brats who were both annointed saviors of their respective teams while somebody like Tom Brady (199th pick in the 2000 draft) had to struggle and scrap his way to even make his team and in the end, through hard work and discipline, won the job from another spoiled "number-one-draft-pick-annointed-savior" (Drew Bledsoe) and outclassed them all.

[Christian4Bush]

bump for later

[Holicheese]

I think that the Pats will win this but I am worried that the Colts are hot right now.
Its hard to argue with Brady's 12-1 in the playoffs. No matter what, on Sunday, I am flying home from hockeyand cracking a beer just in time for the kick off.
I am really tired of all Corky Mannings commercials. I agree, that after he wins a Superbowl, then he can start doing all these commercials.
Maybe he can do one with Dan "my new nickname is skinny" Marino.

[GVNR]

Hey...."Danny" was pretty-good, in his day.
I was never a great fan of his, but I remember he was pretty accurate and I'd seen him fit passes in to the receivers when there wasn't much room at-all.
Marino's career was pretty-much over when his knees got "shot" and he lost whatever mobility he had before that.
The game: I'll go with the Patriots too. Yup, Colts are good, and sometimes explosive, but I don't think they're consistent enough to win against New England's hard-nosed steady play.

[Obie Wan]

Peyton vs Tom. Funny how I can't help notice there's usually more then two guys on the field during most of the football games I've watched.If Peyton had been on the Pat's team the last 5-6 yrs he'd have the rings not Tom. Besides as the old saying goes offenses win games,defenses win championships and in recent years the Patriot teams have fielded one of the best !!!

[raptor29]

"Peyton vs. Tom. Funny how I can't help notice there's usually more than two guys on the field during most of the football games I've watched."

So true, all of what you have here. You have those qb's switch teams and Brady would be just another qb in the NFL. A good one, but nothing close to the stature he has now. All Brady is required to do is not screw up. If Brady doesn't screw up, he can win titles. With guys like Manning, (or in the past Elway, Marino et al) they have to do something special to carry a lesser team to a title. And that's a helluva lot tougher thing to do.

[fnord]

lol, hope you feel better.

AFAIK, every home team prefers to have it's fans in the stands, but maybe NE is different.

there is definitely a "scared" vibe coming from NE fans. the MDS is reaching laughable levels. the sports media have already crowned the Pats again, but maybe they ought to hold off on the anointing oil for a few days.

[lepton]

the perception is still there that Golden Boy Peyton Manning is the premier quarterback of the NFL. Why is that?

I think it's because the Colts have had a throw-happy offense with at least one, and sometimes three premier receivers. Considering that the Pats have generally had a conservative offense - often very conservative - it should surprise people how high Brady's stats are. Brady, for example had a reputation of not being an accurate thrower downfield, but at least for a couple of years he led the league in completion rate on long passes. What Brady has brought primarily, is the ability to play a conservative high-percentage offense and yet still be able to ramp it up and fling it if need be (2004 playoffs were an excellent example). This "continuously variable" offense is a huge asset, but one which doesn't look so good next to the guy who is flinging it every game, good or bad. Manning has only just learnt what Brady has been doing for years. Until the 2005 season, we'd regularly seen Manning pounding on the ground in frustration when he's been forced to be conservative.

[lepton]

All Brady is required to do is not screw up.

Well, that's an overstatement. It was mostly true in 2001. Not so since then.

[lepton]

All Brady is required to do is not screw up.

Well, that's an overstatement. It was mostly true in 2001. Not so since then.

Until Dillon in 2004, they had a pretty meager running game, and again last year.

[raptor29]

The Patriots are the best-coached team in the NFL, and they have regularly featured an incredibly disciplined defensive team that rarely requires the offense to do anything special to win. Also, they are the best and most advanced conditioning team in the NFL, having had the nation's top trainer (who is a doctor from Harvard) running their conditioning program for eight years (until two years ago, but the program continues with his oversight). Their offensive linemen are just quicker than most other teams and many still havent figured it out. Brady simply has to execute the offense and he'll win games. When is Brady ever required to put up 40 on somebody, and he does it through the air? Some qb's live their whole career in that situation.

Also, I don't EVEN want to be questioned by someone who was telling me all fall that Ohio State and Michigan were the top two teams in the country, and that Michigan actually had a chance to beat USC!!

(alright, just kidding, had to rub it in)

[lepton]

[...]Brady simply has to execute the offense and he'll win games. When is Brady ever required to put up 40 on somebody, and he does it through the air?

When they put up more than 10, usually it's done through the air. While the Patriot defense is good, it isn't like the Ravens defense a few years ago which was utterly dominating and would often outscore their opponent by themselves. No, in the Pats defensive heyday what would happen would be that every so often they'd give up a score, and then Brady would be set loose to answer, then given conservative plays until it was worth the risk again.

Some qb's live their whole career in that situation.

Sure, and very few can do both extremes. Brady is one of them. Everything isn't just on his shoulders, but him doing a good job as a thowing QB has certainly been required.

Also, I don't EVEN want to be questioned by someone who was telling me all fall that Ohio State and Michigan were the top two teams in the country, and that Michigan actually had a chance to beat USC!!

Ahem...not that I want to drag this thread off that way, but did I *ever* say to you that Michigan would beat USC in that game? The thrust of my argument was that Michigan (and the other Big10 teams) was at a significant disadvantage playing in the Rose Bowl, especially against the local USC and UCLA. That said, I did indeed think it was possible - and how long was the game 3-3? :P

[lepton]

P.S. I didn't say it was completely wrong either...I said it was an overstatement that "All Brady is required to do is not screw up." If he's an average QB, A) they don't win a lot of games they've won, and B) they can't run their offense as conservatively, since they have to get a few more points ahead as a cushion for later issues.

[raptor29]

Well, I didn't say he was an 'average QB' but I think there is a tendency to heap a lot of praise on guys who in some ways were in the right place at the right time, with the right coaching staff and teammates (and opponents). It really matters who your opponents are too, in these big games. Some years you draw a basic team that got some breaks along the way and got in there. Some years it's just your bad luck to draw somebody really good.

For example, in 2003, if LSU had drawn USC instead of Oklahoma, USC wins that game (sorry LSU folks, that's the way it would have gone) and Coach Saban has no BCS title. Also, Michigan draws somebody else in the Rose Bowl that year and probably wins, finishing maybe 2nd or 3rd in the country. Lloyd Carr has two bowl losses to USC over the past few years, when USC would have probably beaten whoever they played. Saban has a title because he didn't draw them in that BCS game. Look where Saban's life has gone since that game, and Carr is under the gun as always.

Regarding the Rose Bowl this year, it was 3-3 for a long-time, an entire first half. Which means the two teams were pretty comparable, nobody was blowing the other off the field. But then USC out-executed Michigan in the second half. They made better adjustments at halftime, they completed some tough passes, most of which were pretty well covered, and their defense continued to apply pressure on Chad Henne, who I think is very good. So I don't see where the location of that game or the weather or any other related factors had much to do with the outcome, which as you said, were the primary points we were arguing about.

[Pharmboy]

...and doing much better than his precious Giants.

Now you've done it: trashed my beloved Jints, I must now root for Peyton. The Bradys have no chance now...

[SamAdams76]

Actually I think the opposite it true. From the perspective of snowy New England, it is the sports media that continues to crown Peyton Manning as the greatest QB to ever play the game. I think that all those commercials have the sportswriters smitten with man-love for Peyton Manning.

Well after the Patriots are done mopping up the Colts on Sunday, I think that the insurance adjusters in Indianapolis are going to be quite busy if you get my drift.

[SamAdams76]

I might be in the minority here but I take the position that if Peyton Manning was on the Patriots instead of Tom Brady, that the Patriots would have zero Super Bowl wins.

This is because I think Peyton Manning is a "gunslinger" in the vein of Drew Bledsoe. More interested in padding his stats than helping his team win. All those 400-yard games but no Super Bowl rings to show for it. Brady is content to hand it off or throw short screen passes to move the ball down the field on a consistent basis while putting up enough points to win.

Perhaps more importantly, Brady did not demand a "Peyton" sized contract which enabled the Patriots to have more cap room to sign up good players to surround him.

While Brady could demand the highest salary in the NFL (and get it), he'd rather take less so that his team can build talent around him. And when other players get too greedy, the Pats dump them (i.e. Vinateiri) and bring new people in (who are desperate to get a Super Bowl ring). This is the secret of the Pats success. They keep the team fresh and hungry for a Super Bowl ring.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Several NFL commentators have already conceded that Brady is a shoo-in for Canton. He wins another SB and he's automatically one of the top five QBs to ever play the game. A rare blend of leadership, smarts, and classic textbook quarterbacking (Cue teen girl screams).

[Obie Wan]

I don't disagree with your points SamAdams and my posting wasn't to downplay what Tom Brady has meant to the Pat's success,however in past playoff games against the Colts the Pat's have had the stronger teams especially on defense and I doubt if Brady and Manning had swap uniforms for the games they would have ended any different.I do disagree with your comparison between Peyton and Drew Bledsoe however because elite quarterbacks like Brady and Manning are much better at reading defensive schemes then Bledsoe ever was and they both go thru their progressions to decide whose most open to throw to far quicker then Bledsoe ever did. At any rate Sunday is coming and I can't wait, GO PAT'S !!!

[NYCVirago]

The same could be said about Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams. Using your logic, you must agree that Joltin' Joe was a better player than Teddy Baseball.