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Why yes we are winning in Iraq and sometimes change is messy what does that have to do with this?? Trying to impress your thuggish buddies here with your all knowing armchair abilities? Do you believe everything Neville Baker and the DNC says??

Fact is he should have stayed with the car and died because he didn't. Apparently he wasn't Captain Obvious! Course you don't have 750 sq mile rugged wilderness or snow w/your hurricanes in Florida.

Ass for now backing away from blaming the SAR, perhaps you should read the posts I responded to that directly blamed the SAR. You were the main SAR blamer now it is some 911 operator, nice crabwalk.

Bottom line if you go up into the wilderness in Oregon you better know what you're doing because you are on your own, period. The same thing could have happened to me or any number of hunters/fisherman from here and could have survived a week or more up there fairly easily. All you need is a fire and there is a forest of dry wood even in a blizzard. Course we wouldn't be up there with our families anyway.

Calling me names or pointing fingers hardly solves anything other than hiding your limited knowledge of the area. Course nobody can question you or your motives.

As for the hwy 42 slammer, he was coming from Portland to Gold Beach which would take him across 42. Since I lived on 42 for 3 years I may know what I am talking about snow up there or is this thread for flatlander armchair QBs who have never been there? He missed the cutoff and tried to cross that logging road rather than backtracking 30 miles to 42 and it cost him his life. You will save more lives pointing that out than blaming the SAR or 911 operator.

Ass for following the river, yes it is very steep ground around there which was exactly my point. However if he could have got down to the stream it would have led him to the Rogue which has a well maintained trail and houses w/in 15 miles. But hey what do I know, I just lived down there I don't have the benefit of the internet. Anybody knows to follow the rivers downhill when lost.

If the tire tracks were so well marked why didn't he follow them out? The map in the Boregonian showed a big circle where he walked 16 miles and ended up 2 miles from the car on another road.

Now respond w/o your cheap namecalling if you can??????? Ever been in the Oregon Coast Range?

Pray for W and Our Troops

Bray SAR did mess up...big time. And she isn't a 911 operator...once again you don't dig into the details and you spew your comments. The woman is the emergency services coordinator for Josephine County. She was dispatched and actually onsite and part of the SAR efforts. If the information that has been reported is accurate on what she did...then she definitely hindered and hurt this effort and most likely contributed to the tragic outcome.

Bray you really need to get your facts straight.

As far as my knowledge of the wilderness I am very experienced and am familiar with the area. Just because I live in paradise now doesn't mean I always lived here - once again another bad assumption on your part - taking limited knowledge and spewing more garbage.

Bray people like you really take away from the value of FR.

And for the record I do not agree with or listen to anything the DNC has to say.

If you think we are winning in Iraq then you must be an ostrich. Before anyone jumps on me - I didn't say we couldn't win...but we are not winning right now...it is obvious. We cannot fight a way in the mamby pamby way we are doing it. But that is for another thread.

I am the one that used the 911 term because all I knew was that she was taking information, so I thought that.

Not surfer's fault.

As for all of the other noise you make, you totally miss the point.

The point is that there will always be people that get lost. Some of them because they are not as smart as you are. Some because they are old and confused. Some because they crashed an airplane.

Even the most knowledgeable can break a leg a ways from camp.

So don't ever be so smug as to think you can handle any emergency.

So given that this scene will repeat over and over....you can google Oregon SAR budget, and you will be amazed at the numbers. You will also be amazed that they keep records on who was rescued, by county, by sex, by age, etc., and you will be even more amazed to find that Oregon residents are something like 95% of the people that have to be rescued.

If you find the right one, you will get about 75 pages of information.

So given all of that, it is valuable to look at how this rescue could have gone better. It does no good to say no one should get lost if they are as smart as you are.

They are going to get lost and it is going to happen over and over. So SAR needs to learn from every single operation.

In spite of your rant that they can do no wrong, I do suspect that many in SAR are looking at their method of checking out tips.

I also hope the map people are rethinking their maps and that the hotel/lodge associations are thinking about how they talk to new guests.

It still remains that visitors are a small percentage of the problem but just one life is worth many times the effort.

By the way, had you done your homework and gone through the thread, you would have seen the post where surfer went through some of the areas he has lived in. His reply to you was modest. He has lived in areas that are about as unforgiving as the poles.

And as for your sneer about the dangers of FL, you have to see those swamps to appreciate them. There are critters in there that you really don't want to spend a night with. They have everything you have except Moose, plus snakes you would not believe, scorpions, spiders, ants that eat you, not to mention the 'gators. There are places in FL where you would not last one night. Something would eat you. It is not just the occasional panther, it is the hundreds of 'gators, snakes, fire ants, etc.

Now that said, I am done with trying to get you to think.

The same thing could have happened to me or any number of hunters/fisherman from here and could have survived a week or more up there fairly easily. <<<<<

You keep saying this, are you not aware that HE HAD SURVIVED FOR A WEEK before he left the vehicle? And probably a few more days after that? By your logic, he must have done pretty well to have at least survived for the same period of time as the "any number of hunters/fishermen from here" that you cite.

As for the woman coordinating Emergency Services, it is reasonable to expect that she would triage the available info and have an important clue coming from a local with intimate knowledge of the area checked further. I've coordinated emergencies of a different nature, and those are exactly the types of tips that one wants; locals who have seen something they know to be out of the ordinary.

I'm joining this thread late but I just don't understand why no one has corrected you on this important point yet.

You wrote:
If you do walk out always walk downhill and follow the river to safety. He walked a 16 mile circle on the logging roads...

However if he could have got down to the stream it would have led him to the Rogue which has a well maintained trail and houses w/in 15 miles.

You seem unaware that he did NOT walk a "16 mile circle on the logging roads", that he DID "walk downhill" and attempt to "follow the river to safety". He DID get "down to the stream" which would have led him to the Rogue. It's where he was found dead, in Big Windy Creek not far from the Rogue. Look at the map again here.