Fumbles, missteps hindered search. On a hunch, local pilot found mother, kids alive.

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 12/10/2006 | Jaxon Van Derbeken, Peter Fimrite

[surfer]

For four days, as the snowbound Kim family's food supplies dwindled and they used up their gas running their stranded car's heater, no one even knew they were missing.

It was two more days before rescuers narrowed the search to roads leading across thousands of square miles of western Oregon, and another day before cell phone transmissions helped to pinpoint the search area.

While the speed of the investigation in some ways was remarkable -- given what little authorities started out with -- it was dogged by early missteps and obstacles that handicapped investigators.

A Portland hotel where the family had stayed refused to provide credit card records that might have indicated which way the Kims had gone. An early search by air and land of the treacherous mountain route that James and Kati Kim drove out of Grants Pass yielded nothing.

The owner of a lodge on the road where the Kims' car was stuck had told authorities three days before Kati Kim and her daughters were found that he had seen tire tracks in the snow, but he hadn't been able to follow them in his snowmobile once he hit bare ground. No one followed up.

...

[surfer]

Nobody excused James Kim for his mistakes. He definitely messed up and well I think he paid a pretty big price for his mistake.

I think SAR made some pretty big blunders here and I think people are just as easily excusing their mistakes.

Difference is...SAR gets paid to do what they do and when they make a mistake it just gets pushed aside.

James Kim made some mistakes and he is dead.

Don't you think this needs to be discussed to help this from happening again?

[woodbutcher]

Why isn't it part of the training of every hotel in the area to discuss the issue during the winter with people that make reservations - especially for a guest that has never stayed there before.

---

I think that is the best suggestion that has come out of this so far.

Why not instruct all hotel or reservations operators to ask one simple question during the call for reservations?

"Have you stayed with us before" If the answer is "Yes", the second question would be "In the winter?"

Good idea and costs not one penny.

The only hole in it is that a lot of reservations are made now days over the Internet through third parties.

It would be easy to have the computer pop up a window that says "After October 15th, never ever use any road other than XXX to reach our lodge" but there would be no way to know that the person read it or comprehended the dangers.

But it is a good idea in the right direction. As for the map people, I would expect that this event will raise the legal liability to a level that will bring some action on mapping responsibly. This has caused so much national anguish that something is going to change.

[txdoda]

Do you agree that some key mistakes were made specifically relating to searching the road and area surrounding Bear Lake Lodge?

from the article it says it took all day Friday (& into late night) simply to "clear" 50/60 miles of road that was exit 23.......

No one was even sure they had taken this exit until Katie was found Saturday......& now they're saying she was some 16 miles from the exit 23 road.

[Rte66]

I remember them thanking the Kim family's choppers, but the pilot that was named for rescuing Kati and the girls is not the same one in this latest story.

This man went on his own, wasn't hired by the Kims, as far as I know. If he owns 8 Burger Kings, he has his own financial resources and wasn't "on hire."

He may also be one of those people who doesn't want any publicity, for obvious reasons, and may also adhere to the spiritual axiom that if you tell someone about a good deed, it doesn't count. I used to run into that a lot in charitable work.

[surfer]

Personally I don't think it serves anyones interest to start flying legal liabilities around. I don't think the courts solve anything (literally) they just line attorney's pockets with money.

Unfortunately it is what it takes some time to get people to do the right thing.

I have seen in other places depending on time of year you are given specific instructions or warnings. Seems strange that with all the problems around this in this area that something more wasn't done sooner.

[VOA]

...adhere to the spiritual axiom that if you tell someone about
a good deed, it doesn't count. I used to run into that a lot
in charitable work.

I haven't researched it, but an law-enforcement officer I knew
said the "disappearing rescuer" phenomenon isn't uncommon.
I get the feeling that some folks just can't stand the glare of
the lights or get antsy at the thought of the word "hero" being
stuck on them in public.

[woodbutcher]

They had all kinds of people out there looking at first. This was just the morning after the story got out the night before. For all anyone knew, the Kims were in Portland or Roseburg.

---

By that, I assume you mean that those tire marks could have been left by a civilian searcher.

All that would have meant to me had I been there was that there are two different outfits stuck somewhere out here. We got these tracks, lets rescue them.

By the local' posts here, it is a known fact that no one could get over that road with a street vehicle with any kind of tires on it, much less the street tires that would be on a vehicle operated in the bay area.

Quit beating that to death.

[woodbutcher]

Personally I don't think it serves anyones interest to start flying legal liabilities around. I don't think the courts solve anything (literally) they just line attorney's pockets with money.

---

Agreed.

And this family may be the kind that does not.

Even so, each and every person involved in mapping, closing off roads, directing guest during bad months of the year would be wise to do some serious thinking about how to improve.

Regardless of what this family does, it is a risk that is real.

[Rte66]

I'm not "beating" anything to death. Every time I post something that adds info you didn't seem to have, you object to it, so I respond.

Your intent is to blame the owner of the Black Bar Lodge for James Kim not being rescued in time. My intent, once you had impugned his integrity, was to stand up for him, since I had not seen anything to disparage him about.

[Rte66]

Exactly.

[mcshot]

..."If I were running the show, she would be reassigned to another less critical position given her lack of response.'


Like head mop and buffer tech.

[woodbutcher]

My intent, once you had impugned his integrity, was to stand up for him, since I had not seen anything to disparage him about.

---

Sorry about that.

I have no ideas as to his integrity. You can have integrity and still lack the fire, the drive, the compulsion to make things happen.

I don't know that he lacks integrity, but he lacks the fire.

Some one was at the end of those tracks.

It is said that ordinary people can make a difference, except that they are not really ordinary. They are extraordinary because there are not enough of them.

He is not

[tcrlaf]

"mistake the Kims made was not having taken seriously enough the dangers involved in driving through unfamiliar mountains in snowy weather after nightfall."

I once followed a "Shortcut" displayed by Mapquest near Breckenridge, and ended up on a dead end at 11,000 feet.

The road had been closed and turned into a trail years ago, but Mapquest still showed it as an active road....

[cookiedough]

Here's an interesting map and timeline:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2006/12/10/MNGVOMT3NJ1.DTL&o=0

[surfer]

Yes I posted that link in 117...thanks though for bringing it back to light. It is a very good article to read to understand some of this.

I also think this site is really good to review. It has been updated to include the correct vehicle position.

http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path/index.html

[Rte66]

Sorry, it was this statement I was remembering: " ... His response was a totally socialist response-I told the gov. that's all I have to do...He just didn't give a damn. ..."

It was posted by nyconse instead of you, but in the same vein. Apologies.

[txdoda]

Your intent is to blame the owner of the Black Bar Lodge for James Kim not being rescued in time. My intent, once you had impugned his integrity, was to stand up for him

I think the following in this aricle is very mis-leading.....

The owner of a lodge on the road where the Kims' car was stuck had told authorities three days before Kati Kim and her daughters were found that he had seen tire tracks in the snow, but he hadn't been able to follow them in his snowmobile once he hit bare ground. No one followed up.

"Three days before".....was Wednesday, IIRC, Wednesday was the first day this family was reported missing.

[surfer]

They were found on Monday. He made that report on Friday...three days before they were found. If his information were followed they may have all been found on Saturday.

[txdoda]

Your right...for some reason I keep thinking they were found Saturday.

[surfer]

I think we all wish they were found on Saturday!