Pregnant star misses Vatican gala (16-yr-old "Mary" in "Nativity" is pregnant)

BBC News ^ | 11/29/06 | Not listed

[Chanticleer]

No. I think marriage is a good thing. I think sex was created for the context of a heterosexual, monogamous marriage. We agree.

There is something to the argument that perhaps we should bring back the idea of stigma and shame, but I don't believe it is appropriate. One problem is that women, who are certainly not alone in the act that creates a pregnancy, bear the brunt of the stigma as they bear their child. The father is often free of this stigma, and the shame might drive a woman to consider abortion as a way out of public humiliation and disdain. Often, a parent will repent of the sin that lead to an illegimate pregnancy -- do we continue to throw stones even then? I prefer the forgiving, loving, "go, and sin no more" attitude that Jesus demonstrated. I believe people respond better to love than to shame.

I do feel it is mean-spirited to attach an insulting, derogatory name to an infant or child. It was not his or her sin that caused the illegitimacy. Life will be tough enough without society heaping shame on an defenseless child.

[RockinRight]

Not at all.

It's the name-calling and bad attitude. The CHILD is not at fault, here, and we should be thankful that she didn't abort it.

Calling the child a bastard might be gramatically correct, but doesn't help the kid.

For another example, calling a whore a whore, gramatically correct as it may be, doesn't help guide her in the right direction, either.

[Theo]

Please note the context in which I used the term "bastard" (post #6 -- in response to the silliness of post #4).

I'm not being harsh, and I don't have a bad attitude; I'm actually being quite sympathetic to the poor child. May the mother's bad choices serve as a warning to others.

[AmishDude]

Oh no - she did what every person's mother on earth has one at least once, and very often several times...

I am sorry, I just cannot countenance nagging outside of marriage.

[windcliff]

ping

[L98Fiero]

"Strange thinking...."

Premeates FR as of late.

[L98Fiero]

Should be "Permeates"

[petitfour]

My best friend's parents married when her mom was sixteen. They eloped. They're still married after 54 years. I'm sure she was preggers soon thereafter.

[Chanticleer]

Calling a child a bastard is sympathetic? I'd hate to hear you when you're harsh.

[petitfour]

You obviously have been culturally conditioned to believe that 16 is not a good time to become a mommy. And from most of your self-centered comments, I would agree that it is true in your case. You stated earlier that you didn't know what to say. My recommendation for such occasions: Don't Say Anything.

[Xenalyte]

As I've said before on related topics, shame is a powerful motivator.

Good would-be parents want to spare their children embarrassment and humiliation, which is why so much less open illegitimacy occurred back in the day.

[Chanticleer]

Yes, shame can be a powerful motivator. But once the deed is done, it can be a powerful motivator to abort a pregnancy, to run away, to avoid prenatal care, to hide a pregnancy and to abandon a child.

The person committing an immoral act should be the one to bear the shame, if shame is to be borne. The child is an innocent victim, yet the recipient of the shame of the word bastard.

Back in the day, it was shameful for unmarried people of the opposite sex to be together unchaperoned. I'm sure that helped matters greatly. But in the throes of passion, people ignore the possibility of consequences like pregnancy and life-threatening illnesses -- I doubt the fear that any resulting child might be called a bastard will do much to curb the activity.

[motormouth]

Do you have any idea what youre talking about?

MM

[Xenalyte]

What part of my post didn't you understand? I can perhaps type it more slowly and in shorter words.

Or if you just wish to insult me, go ahead, and I won't waste my time.

[Stone Mountain]

Her baby is a bastard. That's what's sad.

Also sad are people who would call an innocent baby a bastard or any other pejorative. Haven't we progressed to the point where we don't call someone names due to circumstances they had no control over?

[Stone Mountain]

But labeling a baby with a derogatory name is just cruel and senseless.

Indeed. I don't understand why anyone would call a baby names. People who feel it's right to blame the child for the sins of the parents, I guess. Absolutely repugnant.

[Stone Mountain]

Not sure why we shouldn't attach a stigma to fornication and illegitimacy.

Attach a stigma to the mother. Not the innocent child. Is this really a difficult concept?

[Stone Mountain]

Please note the context in which I used the term "bastard" (post #6 -- in response to the silliness of post #4).

I read the posts. It's still no reason to call a child names.

I'm actually being quite sympathetic to the poor child.

You're being quite sympathetic to the little bastard? How wonderful.

(BTW, unlike your post, this is a context in which using the term "bastard" doesn't actually refer to the child, but to the pejorative term you used.)

[Stone Mountain]

Good would-be parents want to spare their children embarrassment and humiliation, which is why so much less open illegitimacy occurred back in the day.

It's not just parents who should want to spare any child embarassment and humiliation; it should be everyone. Shaming a child is no sane way to exact revenge upon parents whose lifestyle one don't approve of. Besides, what if they aren't "good" would-be parents? That's still no justification to hurl pejoratives at the innocent child who had nothing to do with the circumstances of it's birth.

[motormouth]

Unfortunately, I actually did understand your post. Instead of typing it more slowly or in shorter words, you should think much longer before you post something.. save me the trouble of insulting you.