Posted on 11/27/2006 9:32:37 AM PST by Charles Henrickson
NEW YORK (AP) -- Mark McGwire, Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. headline the first-time candidates on the 2007 baseball writers' Hall of Fame ballot released Monday, sure to spark debate on Big Mac's place in history as the steroid era comes under renewed scrutiny.
Jose Canseco, whose book last year led to a congressional hearing on steroid use in baseball, also is on the ballot for the first time. Canseco said he used steroids along with McGwire when they were teammates.
McGwire denied using illegal performance-enhancing substances, but when he appeared before a congressional committee, he evaded questions. "I'm not here to talk about the past," was his repeated response.
McGwire finished his career with 583 home runs, seventh in baseball history while Canseco, a former MVP, is 30th at 462. Dave Kingman, 34th with 442, has the most home runs for a player who has been on the Hall of Fame ballot and was not elected.
Gwynn, an eight-time batting champion with San Diego, and Ripken, a two-time MVP with Baltimore, are considered likely to gain election on the first ballot. Ripken played in 2,632 consecutive games, breaking Lou Gehrig's record.
Bret Saberhagen, a two-time Cy Young Award winner, and former MVP Ken Caminiti also are among 17 players on the ballot for the first time along with Harold Baines, Dante Bichette, Bobby Bonilla, Scott Brosius, Jay Buhner, Eric Davis, Tony Fernandez, Wally Joyner, Paul O'Neill, Devon White and Bobby Witt.
Jim Rice, who was 53 votes short of election last year, heads the 15 holdovers. Rich Gossage finished one vote behind Rice.
Reporters who have been in the BBWAA for 10 or more consecutive years are eligible to vote, and the totals will be announced Jan. 9.
The complete ballot:
Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Dante Bichette, Bert Blyleven, Bobby Bonilla, Scott Brosius, Jay Buhner, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Dave Concepcion, Eric Davis, Andre Dawson, Tony Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Tony Gwynn, Orel Hershiser, Tommy John, Wally Joyner, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Paul O'Neill, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Devon White, Bobby Witt.
Cal Ripken
Tony Gwynn
Lee Smith
Rich Gossage
Bert Blyleven
Jack Morris
Andre Dawson
Jim Rice
Dave Concepcion
Alan Trammell
Of these ten only two are DEFINITELY, no-questions-asked, Hall-worthy: Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn. Ripken is the second-best shortstop of all time, second only to Honus Wagner.
The other eight are maybes. (Don't try to sell me on Garvey or Murphy, I won't buy it.)
McGwire certainly has HOF *numbers*, no doubt about that. But I think it's wise at this time to hold off on voting him in until he can be cleared of the strong suspicion of chemical enhancement.
I live right here in St. Louis, and I witnessed--and cheered for--Big Mac's prodigious blasts. At the time I thought he was just a big strong dude who at most took a legal, over-the-counter protein supplement. But now I'm not so sure.
There are three other guys out there, not yet eligible, with certain HOF numbers but likewise under a cloud of suspicion: Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Rafael Palmeiro. I say no Hall unless we're sure they didn't cheat.
BTW, I am HOPING, and crossing my fingers, that my man Ron Santo--easily one of the top ten all-time at the most underrepresented Hall position, third base--finally gets in this coming year through the Veterans Committee.
Too bad it's too late for Buck O'Neil to get in while he was still alive.
Ping, batter, PING!
When you combine all aspects of the game, there's little doubt about that. But Ozzie Smith was the best defensive shortstop.
Dale Murphy belongs in the HoF.
This is an interesting class:
Gwynn and Ripken classy overachievers
Canseco, McGwire and Camminiti damaged by Steriods
Albert Belle - damaged by his own brain
2111 hits, 398 HRs, a .265 lifetime batting average, and zero rings isn't going to cut it.
Not even close, in fact.
Bert Blyleven: The only Hall of Fame eligible pitcher with at least 3,000 (3,701) strikeouts not yet in the Hall of Fame.
Isn't Honus Wagner only "cool" because his baseball card is worth the most? My great grandfather followed baseball pretty well and had never even heard of Honus Wagner. You're not pimping his rookie card, are you? :O)
This whole steriod in baseball issue has not been addressed seriously by the commissioner.
I know that they had to negotiate with the players union to get testing and agree to ban certain substances, and realistically can't test retroactively.
HOWEVER, the steroids used by Barry Bonds and other players are ILLEGAL under federal law already. So this is where I think baseball management has an opening to deal with Barry Bonds and retroactively deal with others who there is evidence against. If they used an illegal substance, it shouldn't matter about what the players association or anyone else says. That should give the commissioner some incentive to take some action. Pete Rose was banned from baseball and the Hall of Fame due to breaking the rules of baseball, if not laws on gambling. If Barry Bonds or others used illegal substances, then that is strong evidence against them.
McGwire acknowledged that he took Androstenedione while he was still active.
Andro is not a steroid and was available in "health food" stores at the time. I don't hold that against him anymore that I would if he were taking Vitamin B-15.
Probably. His range and his acrobatics and his knack for the flashy play were unparalleled. But his arm was never that strong, and for the second half of his career (after he hurt his shoulder, I think), was probably below average. Playing on Astroturf helped him get friendly bounces on his throws to first.
Overall, I think Smith is somewhat overrated--certainly Hall-worthy but overrated nonetheless. The fans here in St. Louis remember his backflips when he ran out on the field but they are blind to his relatively weak arm. (I grew up in Chicago and now live in St. Louis, so I am a little more objective than the locals here.)
Thurman Munson belongs in the HOF.
If they had a Hall of Fame for great two-or-three-year stretches, Dale Murphy would be in it. But the bulk of his career did not measure up, not for an outfielder.
The card is valuable because Wagner was so great, not the other way around.
Halfway through the first half of the 20th century, among players, managers, writers, experts, et al., who had seen all of the greats of the previous decades play, the universal consensus was that Honus Wagner was right up there with Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb as the greatest who had played up to that point. Heck, the argument can STILL be made that Wagner was one of the two or three best--at ANY position, let alone shortstop--that ever played
Ripken and Gwynn move to the front of the line so the borderline guys like Rice and Blyleven have no chance this year. If I were a sportswriter, I would not vote for McGwire this year. Maybe that will force some answers from him. I do think McGwire goes in this year or next.
Harold Baines is the one worth watching. He won't go in this year but his numbers are Hall-worthy. The problem is that he was a DH most of his career and never had any "main stage" moments.
Canseco - the new standard bearer for most HRs while staying out of the Hall.
I think the Veterans Committee has made it too difficult to get in now. It was too easy for too long. Now they've made it too tough.
And too bad about O'Neal. Baseball had its chance to honor him and they choked.
They didn't cheat. It was legal, and they got their hits off of drug-enhanced pitchers. End of story...except for a few sanctimonious sportswriters who dream of becoming the next Keith Olbermann.
Agree. But the original poster says he won't buy that so I guess Murph is screwed. Maybe the 2 time NL MVP should have juiced it up a bit and hidden it really well, then he'd have surely gotten in like Mac-Gwire. YOu watch, the only juicer that won't make the HOF is Canseco. Bonds' records should be purged.
Good 'ol Ron Santo. That brings back a lot of memories--Kessinger, Beckert, Santo, Banks, Hickman................
I hope Ron gets in. He has been through so much and he well deserves it.
DH is indeed the problem. I would have a hard time voting for an otherwise OF who spent most of his time as a part-time player. Molitor is a little different, since he did play most of his games at 3b. Don't try to sell me on Edgar Martinez--no way. The only true test case will be Frank Thomas. The Big Hurt has freakish, Ted Williams/Babe Ruth type OPS career numbers. But two things knock him way down: 1) being a DH; and 2) playing in an inflated offense era.
Canseco - the new standard bearer for most HRs while staying out of the Hall.
Canseco is the new Kingman. McGriff will be next.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.