Posted on 11/21/2006 5:23:06 AM PST by SJackson
He was never a Senator. He was Congresscritter from Ohio who had already lost his bid for reelection in 1862 --- a full year before he pissed off the the US Army by calling for troops to desert their posts. In case you don't know, that is called Sedition and in times of war it can be punishable by death. He didn't make his call from the floor of Congress, by on the pages of the newspaper he owned in Ohio -- so much for the myth that every opposition paper was shut down. Criticism of the war and of Lincoln was quite common and not punished. There was no shortage of Northern newspapers critical of Lincoln and the war. But Sedition, and calls for treasonous activity were punished (as I wish they were today -- see the New York Times) .
Lincoln did not have him arrested --- that was the decision of local military commanders in Ohio. Lincoln, in fact ordered the Army to let him go free --- behind Confederate lines. They passed him over to Confederate troops in Tennessee, but they didn't want to put up with him either. They sent him on to Canada. And he didn't come back "after the war" he came back during the war to lead the Copperhead wing of the Democrat party who were so damn obnoxious that they doomed McClullen's chances. And in a state where democrats routinely won state-wide office, he never came even close to winning the Governorship.
Now where in the hell are you getting this 94% AWOL figure? Do you even know what AWOL means?
Where you been. We did that 4 years ago. As to Germany, we're in the process of pulling out as we speak and moving to Poland. Japan.... I don't know. By the peace treaty of 1945, we have the right to base troops in Okinawa for as long as we damn well please, and if didn't please us to leave, we wouldn't.
One... there was no such thing as a battleship in 1861. Two, Lincoln, unlike President Buchanan who 4 months earlier attempted to resupply Sumter in secret, only to have the ships fired on, wrote to the Governor of South Carolina and informed him he intended to send supplies only and if allowed to deliver them in peace, would take no military action, but that the ships delivering that food reserved the right to defend themselves if attacked.
And I find it very interesting that as CiC you would cave in to Castro so easily. Are you really Jimmy Carter?
lol AT you!
free dixie,sw
Well, first off ditto, I said I don't know by what arrangement we have troops on Cuban soil. I have no clue, but I'll check it out since you seem to want to debate that. So calm down and back away gently from what you think I would or what not do, because even I don't know due to lack of details.
Secondly, who fired the first shots of the Civil War is pretty moot compared to who started it. Sorta like faulting Poland if they shot the first shots of WWII because Germany sent battleships and soldiers to a Polish fort.
The Civil War was started by Lincoln and his and the Republican Party's northern industrial interests. Lincoln said to hell with slavery, he didn't care about it and wouldn't do anything about it, but he was going to collect those tariffs.
the SOLE fault for the war & a MILLION dead is lincoln's alone. his war;his bloody hands.
free dixie,sw
Shelby Foote wrote extensively about that incident in Volume I. Davis basically looked at Jackson like he had two heads because Davis did not have 10,000 men to give. Virtually every man he had was right there at Bull Run, and although it was the Union troops who broke and ran, the Confederate forces were every bit as beat-up and exhausted. Both sides needed time to lick their wounds.
There is rarely anything in your posts that could be confused with English. Random, false insults are meaningless in any language.
So, you think that because 6% of the men whose names were drawn in the draft lottery actually served, the rest hiring substitutes or paying a commutation fee, that translates to a 94% AWOL rate for the Union army? You're incorrect on so many levels. First off, the Union Army was 2.2 million men, so the 250K drafted only comprised a little more than 10% of their number. Even if we accept that "AWOL" means "didn't submit to the draft", you're only talking about a number less than ten percent of army, not over 90%. But of course, AWOL doesn't mean that. It means that they're already in the army and are "away without leave"--a step short of desertion (which, by the way, was a much bigger problem in the CSA army than the Union army). Finally, being AWOL is a crime, Hiring a substitute or paying a commutation fee were legal means to avoid the draft.
laughing AT your foolishness, prejudice & ignorance. don't you get tired of FReepers thinking that you're either a clueLESS laughingstock and/or a cretin???
free dixie,sw
Let me get this straight. You are saying that the South went to war because they didn't want tariffs. That all the slavery stuff they talked about for the previous 30 years, and terms like "Black Lincoln" and "Black Republicans," and the specific words in their secession resolutions about the threat to slavery by Lincoln, was just spin? Was it to fool ignorant dirt-poor mud sills who were scared stiff that 4 million slaves could be running free in the midst when it was really all about tariffs on items those poor people would never in their lives buy?
What a clever conspiracy. But then, one of the first acts of the Confederate Congress is to establish tariffs and not just on that expensive French and English stuff from across the ocean, but on plain everyday stuff from that farmer or forge or mill up the road and across the river that they never had to pay tariffs on before. Man, this makes my brain hurt it's so complex. It harder to follow than a Oliver Stone movie.
Believe your myths all you want, but the real story is far more interesting and inspiring than the Lost Cause crap you have bought into. It's a shame you choose to ignore it.
foote is wrong on many things. this is ONE of those things.
free dixie,sw
Let me put it this way ditto:
The South and North went to war over tariffs. Does that make it any clearer?
Do you seriously, SERIOUSLY, believe that there was no way for this country to peacefully emancipate slaves as the European powers had done years before? You seriously believe this was about slavery?
Abraham Lincoln was not an abolitionist. Here he is in a famous letter to the New York Tribune:
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save teh Union without freeing any slave I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."
What he did was to "emancipate" slaves in the South and leave alone four slave states in the North. And the simple fact is that most northerners were shocked by the Emancipation Proclomation because they had not been told by their govt that they were dying by the tends of thousands blacks in the South.
The EP also caused a desertion crisis in the Union army to the tune of AT LEAST 200,000 and another 90,000 who fled to Canada to avoid conscription period!
a LARGE number of "billy yanks" & "johnny rebs" went to war with FLINTLOCKS, including "Brown Bess" muskets, Charlevilles & assorted privately owned weapons of every sort.
1st Manassas was FILLED with troops with flintlocks & (at least pieces of) American Revolution & "1812 period" uniforms. YES, some soldiers had GOOD, modern weapons, but MANY had "anything available" that would "half shoot".
by late 1861, you would be correct.
that's ONE reason that 1st Manassas was such a "MESS"! poor/missing equipment, all sorts of "uniforms", little or no organization at "company level", amateur soldiers & NO central plan were SOME of the other reasons. it was CONFUSION, personified.
free dixie,sw
GITMO
I think it was you that brought this up. Gitmo is peacefully tolerated by Castro. It's a 100 year old story, but basically we lease the place from the current regime although Castro cashed the first check he has not done so with the others out of protest.
Interesting trivia: Castro put a huge minefield on their side of the base and we put the second largest minefield in the world (and the largest in the Western Hemisphere) on our side although we recently had to remove it on orders from a previous prez. Guess who? Bill Clinton.
No suprise there!
So there is an agreement in place and our legal wranglers use Castro cashing the first check of the lease as proof that the lease is still legit. Castro probably tolerates the place through gritted teeth because it provides him w/ money probably by jobs to Cubans (the place hired tons of Cubans prior to Castro seizing power).
And we all know that any money that goes to Cubans goes to Castro.
I'm not a ballistics expert but my buddy who has been in the service most of his life stationed in Louisiana says that the armory at Fort Polk has flintlocks from the Civil War...so you're right. They were most certainly in use.
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