JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect Karr - Case Thread 2

FRee Republic ^ | 8/28/06 | FReepers, et alii

[Rte66]

This is a reference thread with links to previous FR threads discussing the arrest of a suspect, John Mark Karr, in the decade-old cold case concerning the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, plus case resources for continued commentary on investigation of the crime.

[ableLight]

BTW, who the heck is Danielle???

[ableLight]

"...No one actually knows where Danielle was killed..."

Then it doesn't appear to stand as evidence to support your contention?

[Valpal1]

Danielle Van Damm, another child abduction murder victim taken from her bed where no evidence of an intruder was found in the home. Neighbor David Westerfield was convicted of the crime.

[Valpal1]

http://www.atg.wa.gov/hits/childmur.shtml is the url, the link posted does not work.

[oceanview]

wasn't the house open, while the parents were partying in the garage? I forget the details of that case now.

[Valpal1]

My contention wasn't about murder site, but about an intruder that left no physical evidence of himself. Not even the dogs tracked him conclusively.

People think it *must* be the parents because there is no physical evidence left by the intruder, but it isn't a forgone conclusion that any will be left.

Especially in a compromised crime scene with incompetent investigators.

[Valpal1]

Close, they had partied earlier in the evening and no one was ever sure if doors had been secured or not.

The assumption is that they were probably not secured.

[ableLight]

Ahhh. Where was the body found?

[Valpal1]

Dumped in a garbagy area by the side of a road near a casino, I don't remember the exact distance from her home.

[Rte66]

I'm not sure what Sonoma County can do - I'll have to see what they say this next week. All they have him on is the failure to appear and misdemeanor conviction, for which he has already served 6 months of the time that will probably be assessed.

The conditions for his PR bond were what included the "no computer" clause and I don't know how that relates to something like violation of probation, but it might be like that. I don't think they can do anything about subsequent violations found on his laptop - but perhaps the circumstances of his flight to avoid prosecution - all this JBR hoopla - will convince the Sonoma Co. DA to add more charges.

We have to think there would be some outrage in Petaluma by the citizens there, who would ask for stiffer penalties on JMK now that his habits are known. It's how these came to be known, though, that is a thorny problem, IMO.

[Rte66]

There is nothing at your link, but since you titled it "Abduction Murder," I wouldn't think there would be a whole lot of parents, percentage-wise, who had to abduct their children to kill them - only the obvious non-custodial ones and that might be the whole 14% you're quoting.

As for Danielle, you were the one who was comparing apples to oranges - a primary crime scene where the victim was killed and the body was found, compared to a secondary crime scene where the victim was simply abducted. Big difference in actions involved.

[Valpal1]

corrected link is in post 344, I need to work on my html skills.

JonBenet and Danielle are both classified as child abductions and a home invasion abduction makes the home a primary crime scene.

As for the 14% rate, it's mostly non-custodials. You'd think a lot of parental child murderers would try to fake an abduction, but they don't, they try to claim or fake an accident or they confess.

Or they are so whacknut like the one who drowned her 5 children, they don't take any steps to cover up or deny.

[stlnative]

Thanks...

Well I am hoping that his computer HD was loaded with child porn. I find it hard to believe that is was not. The laws on child porn are laxed overseas and he may have felt comfortable having child porn on his laptop. Thai LE may have found the child porn on his laptop or let American LE look at it with Thai police while he was over there. This may part of the reason why he was not officially arrested until he was on US soil, this would put him on US soil (California soil to top it off) with a laptop computer containing prohibited child porn on a laptop in his possession.

Karr has requested that Colorado DA give him back "his" computer.

Like you said it is thorny, but I hope they are able to nail him with some additional charges. This guy does not need to be let go for quite sometime. I want to see him do some time so he has to register as a predator when he gets out.

Another thing that got my attention is that Karr may be like a ticking bomb. He had all the hair removed from his arms and part of his face, and who knows where else. The reason he was doing this could be one single reason or a multiple of reasons. Being hairless or having to worry about less body hair makes it easier to get away with a sexual crime. Men can shed body hair naturally and so easily, it also can be pulled out easily during an attack. Of course it could be that he was slowly starting the process to have a sex change operation. But the Thai doctor said Karr was way off from having that done, normally men that come to him for a sex change consultation do not walk in dressed as a man as Karr did.

[ableLight]

"As for Danielle, you were the one who was comparing apples to oranges - a primary crime scene where the victim was killed and the body was found, compared to a secondary crime scene where the victim was simply abducted. Big difference in actions involved."

Right. That's what I was hinting at in my earlier post. The Danielle case is not an example of how an intruder can enter a home and not leave evidence b/c Valpa1 didn't establish (and can't b/c we don't know where she was killed) the fact that Danielles case was comparable to that of the JBR case. Once again, you stated it more clearly. It's still apples and oranges, even if we don't know where Danielle was killed. Thanks.

As for the stats Valpa1 quoted those are national statistics that include all sorts of factors not present in the JBR case - it's a misapplication of statistics to make a point.

[ableLight]

Interesting points all. I do think from reading his emails to Tracey that he DID in fact have some sexual identity issues, to put it politely. He made numerous references to the presence of a myserious female wherever he went. It's him.

[ableLight]

I think you meant to make that a link (Abduction Murder Study) to a website but got the forum in it instead.

I'd like to see it if you can put it up. Thanks.

[ableLight]

BTW, an interesting exercise would be to see if we can get stats on how many children were murdered in their home by a stranger who broke and entered the home w/o the parents knowledge (since all the Ramseys and their acquaintances were ruled out). That would be truly apples to apples and I'm curious what it would show.

[ableLight]

The converse would also be interesting. How many children have been murdered in the home by their immediate family residing in the same home.

Comparing the stranger/intruder stats against the murder by family stats would be VERY interesting.

[stlnative]

In case you are interested...

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/April/03_ag_266.htm

http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46618.htm

The PROTECT Act

An important aspect of the U.S. effort is to strengthen law enforcement’s ability to investigate, prosecute, and punish violent crimes committed against children, including child sex tourism and the commercial sexual exploitation of children. The PROTECT Act (Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to End the Exploitation of Children Today Act of 2003) was passed by the Congress in April 2003 and signed into law by President Bush. The act serves as a historic milestone for protecting children while severely punishing those who victimize young people. Of particular note, the PROTECT Act allows law enforcement officers to prosecute American citizens and legal permanent residents who travel abroad and commercially sexually abuse minors without having to prove prior intent to commit this crime. The law also strengthens the punishment of these child sex tourists. If convicted, child sex tourists now face up to 30 years’ imprisonment, an increase from the previous maximum of 15 years.

The PROTECT Act made several other changes to the law with a focus on protecting children from sexual predators, including: extending the statute of limitations for federal crimes involving the abduction or physical or sexual abuse of a child for the lifetime of the child; expanding the potential reach of federal sex trafficking prosecutions by extending federal jurisdiction to crimes committed in foreign commerce; establishing parallel penalty enhancements for the production of child pornography overseas; and, criminalizing actions to arrange or facilitate the travel of child sex tourists.

[stlnative]

I am praying that they had the classroom bugged when they were watching (and hopefully they video taped it also) Karr through the school window interacting with the 5 year old. - I believe what he said to the child is in the Arrest Warrant or in Tracey's Email File. (it was near the end pages of one of these files)

I would love to see the FBI go after this creep under The PROTECT Act, but I will not hold my breath. I guess if the FBI was going to get involved we most likely would have heard something by now.