Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66
For your bookmarking assistance, this is a reference list of links to the Aug 2006 or newer Free Republic threads on the topic of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and the possible arrest of John Mark Karr as a suspect in her murder.
Not in the photos I've seen, but I have no doubt there are more photos out there. I only saw the ones linked on this thread a few pages back.
ping to post 2285
Not according to the coroner. This was bleeding due to the head trauma, not livor mortis.
So she was hit (or her head hit an object) with sufficient force to pulverize part of her skull. If the flashlight was the weapon used, then the blow had to have been struck by a strong individual swinging the weapon in an arc (like a baseball bat) with great force.
If that is the case -- and again, we really don't have enough facts to know for certain -- then this was a blow intended to kill.
After reading your post again I see now what you were saying. I guess what makes me skeptical is that, and this is a subtle point, but in our country it's easier to acquit than to convict. If the jury pool were tainted against the Ramseys it would be easier to acquit with a total lack of physical or forensic evidence than if a jury pool were tainted in favor of the Ramseys (RSM) and a conviction were sought. The DA knew this.
Specifically, the bleeding was due to hemorrhage, not livor mortis.
Last post for the night for me...really!
"If that is the case -- and again, we really don't have enough facts to know for certain -- then this was a blow intended to kill."
I completely agree with you on this! It breaks my heart.
a garrote is a usually a rope or wire that has a slipknot on each end, put you usually slip a piece of rod into each slipknot and tighten the slipknot down to hold the rods in place. Then you wrap the cord around the neck and twist the cord like you do when you put a wire twist tie on a garbage bag. The handles are used so that you can created tension and hold the tension.
From what I just read....he put a slipknot on each end and place the paint brush handle in one slipknot and then placed the other slipknot over her head and around her neck. Doing it this way would not allow him to use like a typical garrote.
I have to look into it more and read more of the reports. I think I have an idea on how he did it using this method, but it is really odd.
Excellent graphic! I'm going to bed!!1
Sorry. The ones I have on my CD aren't on a server to post them.
Exactly. There are different types of garrotte and the twisting ones are *usually,* not *always,* done with piano wire, which can behead someone.
They do it and take it with them, victim is already dead. This one, to ME, has always appeared to have had a slip knot at the back that just locked down when the handle was pulled the right direction - or alternately, when the handle was positioned between two bars or other stationery objects and the child was pulled in the opposite direction. Hands-free for the perp.
Does anyone know of a clear picture of the room she was found in? Are there any closely spaced vertical pipes or other vertical structures like 2x4's or something?
The garrote didn't make sense to me either unless:
John found her body. We don't know everything that was found in that room after she was found. We see some pictures and we have his description, and that of Linda Arndt and the autopsy info.
According to transcripts (not second hand news accounts, but transcripts) her wrists were *tied together*. Remember that John was "partially successful" in removing the ligature from her wrists. He tried to untie them some more when he got her upstairs but Linda Arndt stopped him and told him she was dead. Her arms were stiffly held somewhat above her head.
The one tail from the right wrist ligature was 15.5" (I think) and had a double loop knot. Google that knot so you know what it looks like.
One of the tails from the neck ligature was 17" (I think) and was firmly attached to the wooden stick.
If there were two horizontal pipes running up along the wall then try to picture this:
The *unbroken* wooden stick was inserted into the double loops from the wrists' ligature. Then the tail of the neck ligature was looped around the center of the stick between the two loops. (This is why hairs got tangled into it.)
Then the wooden stick is wedged between the two pipes running up along the wall. That holds her arms and upper body in place.
(She is likely facing downwards since the urine covering her panties and jammie bottoms was on the front, not the back.)
Now the whole ligature thing makes sense, does it not? But at some point she "accidentally" dies.
There was no rage. The murderer carefully wrapped her in her white blanket before leaving her, and drew a red heart on her hand.
I'm reading the transcript now (which is giving me the chills) and investigators showed John a picture from that room. There's the blanket, and there's a pink Barbie doll nightie nearby. Not JonBenet's nightie with a picture of Barbie on it. She had a big Barbie doll in the corner of her room that she rarely played with. That doll wore a shiny pink nightie.
John says when he found her that he was pretty much out of his mind at that moment and immediately starting talking to her and trying to untie the knots around her wrist. He didn't even see the ligature around her throat. Who is to say that he didn't pull on that rope/string and that is what caused it to be broken into 3 pieces?
Why was the wooden stick (paintbrush) broken into any pieces at all otherwise? Why would the murderer bother breaking it into three? Not to mention how difficult it would be to make the second break.
The knot on the handle isn't a slip knot.
Quote from the autopsy report where he says that.
He describes what he sees, not how it happened.
Let me see if I have the distance - I want to say 17", but I better look.
Yup, that's right - from knot to handle.
It was her Barbie night gown. She just had barely outgrown the My Size Barbie - those are usually for 3-5 year olds - they wear the same clothes as the child. But JonBenet was a little small and kept on wearing it for good luck at next-day pageants, even though Patsy thought it was ratty.
I'm really not a whole lot taller than a My Size Barbie myself, actually.
But, over and over again I am reading it described in such a way that would seem impossible just by looking at the photos. With that type of cord and the assumed twisting design of the device, it would seem that once the killer walked away, the tension on the neck would have been gone. Am I confused? Gosh. Just typing that made me queasy.
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