Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my Tour de France 2006 list.
Posted on 08/07/2006 10:47:51 PM PDT by AZRepublican
The controversy surrounding Floyd Landis is actually different then other controversies over illegal steroid use for one major reason: Both his blood and urine has been tested eight times (three blood tests) throughout the French de Tour. These other tests combined are more significant and telling then the single sample test found with an abnormal T/E ratio. As it stands, Landis' single positive test is just a distraction that sheds little light on the truth of any illegal drug activity on his part.
To get any benefit out of an anabolic agent it must be used over weeks, not hours or days. Prior urine or blood tests that failed to detect an abnormal T/E ratio shows he was under no doping regime prior to entering the tour or during. What is most important now is determining what the tests showed following his positive urine test. As I understand the rules, the athlete with the yellow jersey must submit to an a mandatory urine test after each stage, leading to valuable follow-up data in order to determine whether we can have any confidence in the single positive test.
The degree in the drop of the T/E ratio following the positive test would be the golden key. The time it takes for a T/E ratio to return to normal after one stops taking the hormone is not instant, and can take several months, depending on dosage amounts and length of time taken. If Landis' follow-up urine test showed normal ratio, or a ratio consistent with his very first urine test, then we can have no confidence in the single positive test being the result of a sudden intake of a anabolic agent on the eve of Stage 17.
My advice is to stop dwelling over the positive test and zero in on the post urine/blood tests to learn if indeed Landis is either a very foolish cheater, or in fact is telling the truth. Because there are eight known urine tests and three blood tests, puts the French anti-doping council and everyone involved in the chain-of-custody of Landis' urine samples in the hot seat to explain why suddenly one sample tests positive while all other before and after do not.
Somehow I get the feeling Floyd Landis is just a temporary sideshow to a far greater story that is yet to be uncovered.
Yeah, OK. I'll be holding my breath.
The sponsorers are already pulling out. Nobody in this sport has anything to gain from Landis being caught for this...especially the French. Phonak has already pulled their sponsorship before this even happened because of all the doping. The rumor mill says that iShares will also pull out of taking over the team after the Landis affair.
From Cyclingnews.com today:
Skoda pulls out of Tour sponsorship
The Tour de France has felt the first big financial effect of the Floyd Landis affair, with its main car sponsor Skoda choosing not to renew its contract when it finishes at the end of 2007. The Czech car manufacturer said that while it was "generally content with the sponsorship" it didn't want its image to be associated with doping scandals such as the one involving Landis.
Skoda, part of the Volkswagen group, has been sponsoring the race since 2004, when it took over from Fiat. Its sponsorship of the world's biggest bike race has helped increase its visibility in several key European markets.
This is probably the most visible sponsor (along with Crédit Lyonnais ) that is not a team sponsor for the Tour de France. Now someone explain to me once again why the French or anyone else would cut off their nose to spite their face???
Because the French can't even win in their own back yard.
Good circumstantial evidence you have there clouseau!
That's the most ridiculous logic I've heard. Clearly you haven't given this much thought. No matter what the evidence is, you're not going to believe Landis cheated until he admits it. Same way those idiots can say they believe O.J. was framed. Anyone who looks at the evidence knows the truth. Enjoy living in your dream world.
I'm just a fool. Remember that Mr. Know-it-all.
Now, with all due respect, STFU.
Oh, I'll remember it. More than a fool, actually. More like someone who spouts off at the mouth regarding something he knows nothing about. More of an idiot than a fool.
Jaksche's doctor: drug use common
German doctor Kurt Moosburger, who has looked after Jörg Jaksche (among others) for the past two years, has told dpa that he believes that performance enhancing drugs are "indispensable" for high level cycling
In a frank interview, Moosburger pointed to the average speeds of modern professional races, especially hard tours. "The average in last year's Tour was 41 kilometres per hour - that is incredible. You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need - depending on your training conditions - up to three days in order to regenerate."
To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."
Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."
Dr Moosburger went onto explain that, "The supply of oxygen to the blood decides what the body is capable of in terms of fat- and carbohydrate metabolism. This capacity is mostly genetically determined.The muscles of athletes who are able to reach the top level of sport can carry about 60 millilitres per kilo per minute in an untrained condition. That of an average person is only about 40 millilitres per kilo. In order to be able to keep up with the world's best, it must be 85 to 90 millilitres.
EPO helps oxygen carrying capacity, and has long been the performance enhancing drug of choice in endurance sports. "It enables you to hold the haematocrit of the blood in the upper level of what's allowed for the whole season. Before the EPO test, for example, athletes injected 4000 units three times per week. Now they inject a small dose almost daily."
Finally, in the opinion of Dr Moosburger, blood doping via transfusion would give an athlete a five percent boost for two to three weeks. "And therefore can last for a grand tour."
Here is some more for you. Notice that several of these guys never tested positive but confessed and provided a detailed list of what they were using:
Some recent cases of doping in cycling
Francesco Casagrande – tested positive
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/sep98/sep2.shtml
Gert-Jan Theunisse – tested positive
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jan00/jan1news.shtml
Jesus Manzano(Kelme)- confessed
Manzano's list A list of the products that Manzano has referred to in his interviews. Actovegin (extract of calves blood which supposedly improves oxygen carrying capacity) Albumina H. (protein in blood plasma) Androgel (testosterone) Aranesp (Darbepoetin alfa = super EPO) Celestote (corticosteroid) Eprex (EPO) Genotorm (growth hormone) Hemoce (plasma) Deca durabolin (anabolic steroid) Humatrope (growth hormone) IgF1 (insulin growth factor 1) Neofertinon (hormone to stimulate ovulation and estrogen production) Neorecormon (hormone that regulates red blood cell production) Norditropin (growth hormone) Nuvacten (corticosteroid) Trigon (asthma drug) Urbason (corticosteroid) Ventolin (bronchial dilator) Oxandrolona (anabolic agent) Vitamin B12 (essential B vitamin) Triamcinolona (corticosteroid) Testoviron (testosterone) Aspirina (analgesic, anti-inflammatory) Oxyglobin (artificial haemoglobin intended for anaemic dogs) Hemopure (artificial haemoglobin) Ferlixit (iron) Caffeine (stimulant) Hemassist (artificial haemoglobin) Prozac (antidepressant) http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...mar04/mar29news
Robert Sassone - the home of a former Cofidis rider, Robert Sassone, was searched, and a quantities of testosterone, EPO and amphetamines were found that were, according to police, "consistent with personal use and not with large-scale trafficking". http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2004/witchhunt1
Peter Winnen – confessed- During his career with Raleigh, Panasonic and Buckler, Winnen used testosterone,amphetamines and corticosteroids.
Maarten Ducrot-confessed- Maarten Ducrot used cortisone and testosterone, as well as Synacthen, "a very bad medicine," and he still regrets using it. Ducrot said he experimented with synacthen in 1982 when he was an amateur.
Steven Rooks-confessed- Rooks said he used testosterone and amphetamines during his whole 13 year career. (minor detail: until December 31, 1999 Rooks was still working for TVM!). In addition, former mountain climbing colleague, Gert-Jan Theunisse who was banned for testosterone during his career denied any usage of testosterone in "Reporter". http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jan00/jan1news.shtml
Fontanelli – tested positive - In 1996, Fontanelli failed a drugs test in the Amstel Gold Race (testosterone).
Michael Skelde - tested positive http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/jan98/jan20a.html
Dario Frigo - possession of illegal drugs - according to ANSA newsagency, "Anabolic steriods, testosterone, caffeine and other doping products" were found in his room. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/ju...jun09news.shtml http://www.cycling4all.com/index.php?content=d_news06.php 2002-Dario Frigo was in the news again today, in relation to the substances he was carrying during last year's Giro. Frigo was caught with a vial of testosterone (banned) and another two vials labeled "Hemassist", a blood substitute that hadn't made it through clinical trials because too many people died. He was thrown off the Giro and sacked by his team while lying in second overall. He also served a nine month suspension for possession of banned products, although he claimed that he never took them. Interestingly, the vials of "Hemassist" were finally analysed and were found to contain saline solution(!), which probably would have helped Frigo more than the original product. This scenario as actually quite believable as cyclists will try just about anything if someone tells them it will make them go faster. http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2002/giro0...ults/livecomp11
Santiago Botero - high testosterone levels- The suspicions that cyclist Santiago Botero was on the juice have been allayed by Spanish Doctor, Eufemiano Fuentes, who demonstrated that the rider’s high testosterone levels are natural in origin (horses are natural, aren't they?). The Colombian Cycling Federation accepted Dr. Fuentes’ explanation. Botero had been placed in a compromising position when four tests showed his testosterone level to be more than 6 nanograms, the maximum level for normal people. The levels detected in Botero were: 17, 28, 29 and 27(!) Due to these results, his team, Kelme-Costa Blanca, left him out of la Vuelta a España as a preventive measure and his case went to the Colombian Federation. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/se...sep30news.shtml
Sascha Urweider (Phonak) – tested positive – Urweider blames nutritional supplement Sascha Urweider, suspended by Team Phonak Monday after a positive A-test for testosterone, lays the blame on a nutritional supplement. "I got the stuff on the Internet from Germany," Urweider said. "I thought a substance from Germany would surely be okay. If it had been something from the US, I would never have tried it." Team owner Andy Rihs had a different point of view. "What he did was totally crazy," Rihs told Swiss newspaper Blick. "Our team doctors have repeatedly warned against using nutritional supplements." When buying the product, Urweider thought he had been cautious. "I considered it to be a reputable company," he said. "I read the packaging insert. And at some point you just have to trust other people." According to the Neue Zürcher Zeitung, he said that the producer explicitly said that the product does not contain any substance which appears on the doping list. Urweider did not release the name of the product, but said that if the B-test is also positive, then he would let the product be investigated. The team suspended Urweider after being informed of the positive results of the doping control taken during training on February 14. Urweider, 25, is a second-year pro with the Swiss team, which has a history of doping-related problems in recent years. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...ar06/mar14news2 Urweider's B probe positive Sascha Urweider's B probe has also come back positive for testosterone, a Swiss television station has reported. The Phonak rider came up positive during a training control on February 14. The team suspended him when the positive A result was announced in March. Urweider has been blaming a nutritional supplement. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...apr06/apr07news
Festina scandal - The 1998 Tour de France, dubbed the "Tour of Shame", is considered the most scandal-ridden modern Tour. On July 8, 1998, a major scandal erupted after French Customs arrested Willy Voet, one of the seigneurs for the Festina cycling team, for the possession of illegal prescription drugs, including narcotics, erythropoietin (EPO), growth hormones, testosterone, and amphetamines. (Voet later described many common doping practices in his book, Massacre à la Chaîne[4].) Two weeks later, on July 23, 1998, French police raided several teams in their hotels and found doping products in the possession of the TVM team. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France
Operacion Puerto document
“The codename ‘Jan’ appears four times in a document where a list of coded product names appears to relate to blood stored, human growth hormone, IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor) and testosterone patches.” “Document 28 makes reference to (for name checkout link) with the annotations for Human Growth Hormone-Lepori, IGF-1, testosterone patches, human growth hormones, EPO and anabolic steroids, coordinated with a blood transfusion programme.” http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2219
(for name checkout link) doping plan The Suddeutsche Zeitung has published what it claims was (for name checkout link) doping plan for the first week of the Tour de France 2005, based on information from Operacion Puerto. For the first seven days of the Tour, Dr. Fuentes prepared him a series of hormones, insulin, cortisone, testosterone and blood transfusions, the newspaper alleged. It claimed that there was a "Roadbook" for the Tour 2005, which investigators link to ( ).
On the first day, according to the SZ, the hormone HZ was listed, the second day insulin I-3, the hormone TGN and cortisone, the third day TGN and PCH (a testosterone shot), on the fourth day HMG, a hormone mixture, a "rest day" on the fifth day, the sixth day insulin I-3, and on the last day, the re-infusion of his own blood, as well as insulin I-3 and vitamin E.
The newspaper also notes that it is not clear who might have helped ( ) with possible transfusions, and notes that experts say that ( ) or ( ) himself might have managed it. There is no indication that the medical or support personnel of the team were involved, according to the SZ.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...ul06/jul14news3
Moosburger's explanation is very interesting, and you did good research on various doping scandals, but I am still trying to relate what Moosburger said with the results of Landis's test, and they don't obviously add up. Landis's testosterone level was normal and his EPO level was abnormally low; these findings seem inconsistent with the doping scenarios and techniques described by Moosburger, which would seemingly lead to elevated levels of BOTH testosterone and EPO, not a normal reading for one and a low reading for the other.
EPO is a drug marketed by Amgen that helps someone produce a higher concentration of red blood cells in order to carry more oxygen. It is a banned substance.
I think maybe you meant epitestosterone rather than EPO?
And I would like to know the answer to that too--if Landis was doping with testosterone, why would the ratio test come out with normal levels of test. and abnormally low levels of epitest.?
From what I've read, every rider who was flagged for the imbalance, was eventually vindicated. The real issue is the synthetic testosterone in his system.
Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my Tour de France 2006 list.
You forget one thing. Testosterone taken the night before the stage would provide exactly ZERO help the next day. It must be taken over a period of weeks or months to begin to build excess muscle mass.
It also does not leave the body quickly, and subsequent tests would also be positive. It doesn't add up. Something smells here, and it isn't Landis.
The test cannot differentiate between normal and synthetic testosterone. It is presumed from a ratio of 2 naturally occuring substances in the body. There are numerous other factors that feed into the ratios. There are no controlled studies that I am aware of that test athletes in the same situation that are both on testosterone and are not. I would like to see such studies before passing judgement.
the other thing, testerone would make you stronger, but would it increase your stamina? Thats' what I think a bike race would require....
Thanks. I'm still waiting to see if Floyd invokes the chymera, then I'll know he's done.
I, for one, would rather not believe Landis cheated. However, I can't let my "belief" get in the way of cold hard facts. Cycling has a history of performance enhancing drugs. Heck, if I'm not mistaken, up until the sixties,it was accepted that cyclists during the Tour would take amphetamines. If memory serves, I think a rider died during the Tour due to an amphetamine overdose.
Seems to me those who are defending Landis are also ignoring cyclings long history of using performance enhancing substances.
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