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To: Golden Eagle

Well, look. I don't have any argument with you about the hardware apsects of the Lenovo deal; I'm as leery as can be about all of the goodies we're transferring over to the Red Chinese these days. If they wanted to kill our economy, all they'd have to do is just turn off the spigot and refuse to ship anything to U.S. markets. We'd go tits up inside of two weeks even with the remaining sources outside of China. That kind of move would throttle the technology markets and wreak unimaginable havoc on our economy; we'd all really feel a huge and very financially painful bite.

And, to hit upon another point you've raised more than once, I'll stand up and agree with you that, while they do a booming business, many of the foreign-made products found at WAL-MART are NOT peers of their more hardily constructed domestic counterparts; small appliances in particular. Alot of that stuff is new today and trash tomorrow. Despite all that, I'm still not for running them outta town. Let them compete. Let people send good money after bad once or twice; it's educational. When that new Shanghai waffle iron craps out 91 days after purchase, the owner will very likely realize that he's been gypped and think twice about getting another one like it. Their next purchase will likely be a brand of higher quality, bought from a store that sells higher quality; not WAL-MART.

Another aspect of it all bothers me, too. My grandfather wrenched on Fords at a Fullerton, CA dealership for 42 years. When he started, they would rebuild batteries right on the bench. Magneto gone bad? No problem. He'd tear it down and rebuild it right there in the shop. Those days were long gone before he finally retired. He'd say of modern mechanics, "They're not mechanics, they're just parts replacers." In his mind, a mechanic fixed what was broken and you didn't toss an entire assembly into the scrap bin on account of one internal piece being cracked.

Now, we do far worse; we commonly toss out things that are entirely functional simply bacause there's a newer, better, more gee-whiz product on the market that does exactly the same thing. Ours isn't broken, but BOY we've got to have that new one. We create heaping mountains of scrap for the sheer gratification of having something new. Our forebears who came through the Great Depression would be completely dumbfounded. They wouldn't even know how to begin getting their minds around that kind of thinking, it's so antithetical to what they learned at the school of hard knocks.

Part of the answer, of course, is for domestic manufacturers to settle for no less than real, solid, quality and for consumers to value their money enough that they won't fork it over for inferior-grade junk. Unfortunately, that's nearly impossible in an adolescent-minded society that idolizes 'bling', and rap, and thinks scoring some sex is the pinnacle of human existence. In that climate, you just can't teach something as mundane as the value of a buck and make it stick.

Which brings me back to the point at hand: the software side of the Lenovo deal. As long as people are willing to pay to engage the level of geekdom required to run a box under LINUX, let 'em. Bill's not losing any sleep over it, why should you? These LINUX distros aren't all freebies, anymore. More and more entities -- foreign and domestic -- are packaging and selling their own 'brand' of LINUX for profit. And just like kitchen appliances, if there are versions that suck, they'll be forced by the market to either improve or be replaced by aomeone else's product. You want people to buy them from domestic sources? Well, then let those domestic sources prove their worth in the open market and you'll have your wish.

If it takes patronizing a foreign establishment to get the domestic manufacturer to devote real energy to quality, then that's just hard, cold reality. It's been working in the auto industry and it'll work in any other. I'm not going to mollycoddle anyone just because their address is in the U.S., and neither should anyone else. Producers had better be making QUALITY products or they're not getting a dime from me. In FACT, if their address IS in the U.S. and they're NOT producing top-notch quality, then shame on 'em! Perhaps they oughta be fined for giving domestic manufacturers a bad name. Well, market forces ensure that they will be; they won't get a great deal of business until they improve.

At the end of the day, folks just want their computer to do the jobs they intend for it to do. If they can achieve that goal using LINUX, more power to 'em. I'm an XP Pro guy, myself, but I really got burned when I ran into the multi-step, do-it-this-way-or-your-O/S-is-dead-meat process for replacing a failed hard drive. As a consumer, I care about getting "genuine" software when that's what I paid for, but the measures utilized to guarantee that genuineness had better be minimal or invisible to me as a user. Like the VIN number on my car; if it's gotta be there, fine, just put it where it's not in my face. Don't aske me to type it in correctly every time I change a headlamp, and don't EVEN force me to call the automaker for a new ingition code. If my car worked like XP, changing the spark plugs without first getting the "amen" from the ignition computer would leave me with a car that wouldn't start. That's flatly unacceptable, and it ISN'T "quality". Not in my book, anyway; not the kind of quality you've been espousing, not the kind I demand, nor the kind anyone else should have to settle for.

And, come time for my next upgrade, ol' Bill's going to have some stiff competition at my house.


171 posted on 08/09/2006 6:04:25 PM PDT by HKMk23 (TAG! You're IT!)
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To: HKMk23
Well, look. I don't have any argument with you about the hardware apsects of the Lenovo deal; I'm as leery as can be about all of the goodies we're transferring over to the Red Chinese these days.

Then why were you calling me a buzzard?

And, to hit upon another point you've raised more than once, I'll stand up and agree with you that, while they do a booming business, many of the foreign-made products found at WAL-MART are NOT peers of their more hardily constructed domestic counterparts; small appliances in particular. Alot of that stuff is new today and trash tomorrow.

Amazing, someone is finally speaking the truth. Besides me.

we commonly toss out things that are entirely functional simply bacause there's a newer, better, more gee-whiz product on the market that does exactly the same thing. Ours isn't broken, but BOY we've got to have that new one. We create heaping mountains of scrap for the sheer gratification of having something new.

The tech worshipers are the worst, they're attracted to tech because it has such a high turnover of product in the first place. As you can see some of them would probably give body parts if not their eternal soul for some new gizmo or feature, no matter who or where it happened to come from.

Which brings me back to the point at hand: the software side of the Lenovo deal. As long as people are willing to pay to engage the level of geekdom required to run a box under LINUX, let 'em. Bill's not losing any sleep over it, why should you? These LINUX distros aren't all freebies, anymore. More and more entities -- foreign and domestic -- are packaging and selling their own 'brand' of LINUX for profit.

I appreciate your respectful post, and can give you easy answers. First, Linux is a foreign clone of Unix built by a guy who didn't want to pay for US products, and wanted to turn our software industry on its head, which thankfully has not yet happened. But Unix is originally an American product, American products are older and more mature, and are now available for free too. Why use the foreign fake, when the original US products are available to you?

Also, Linux is actually in every current case being distributed for free, no matter how many hooks US companies may be trying to add into it. They have to give it away for free because of its license, which is why a country like China has taken the Red Hat modifications to Linux, stripped the labeling off, renamed them "Red Flag", and can and then does sell them without a penny back to Red Hat. If you're concerned about trade imbalances with China, you should be furious about them profitting off of our work for free.

And it's not just Linux I'm concerned about, I'm concerned about all software licensed by leftist fanatic Richard Stallman, known as GPL software. Stallman is "the father of free software", and lists on his website his "ultimate goal is to make proprietary software obsolete". He wants to destroy the value of intellectual property, and believes in a "software tax" to help manage the supposedly "free software". If you detest leftists as do I, he should be high on your list.

If it takes patronizing a foreign establishment to get the domestic manufacturer to devote real energy to quality, then that's just hard, cold reality. It's been working in the auto industry and it'll work in any other. I'm not going to mollycoddle anyone just because their address is in the U.S., and neither should anyone else. Producers had better be making QUALITY products or they're not getting a dime from me.

Surely you're not inferring there are no American automobiles worthy of your purchase. Just because foreign competition keeps US businesses on their toes doesn't mean you and me should actually be buying foreign automobiles. Aren't there enough liberals and foreigners already here in this country to do that for us?

As a consumer, I care about getting "genuine" software when that's what I paid for, but the measures utilized to guarantee that genuineness had better be minimal or invisible to me as a user. Like the VIN number on my car; if it's gotta be there, fine, just put it where it's not in my face. Don't aske me to type it in correctly every time I change a headlamp, and don't EVEN force me to call the automaker for a new ingition code.

Then crude Unix or Linux is definitely not for you. Stick with Windows XP, or get a Mac. Buy American, support Americans, support US intellectual property laws, get a superior product, and help defend the turf from the foreign onslaught. Where's the supposed downside, other than you paid for something actually worth paying for.

175 posted on 08/09/2006 6:52:45 PM PDT by Golden Eagle (Buy American. While you still can.)
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To: HKMk23

Well said, and I agree wholeheartedly. Thanks for the post.


179 posted on 08/09/2006 8:21:35 PM PDT by zeugma (I reject your reality and substitute my own in its place. (http://www.zprc.org/))
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