Could Landis been framed on the night before his comeback? (Vanity)

[AZRepublican]

Nothing is adding up (in my mind at least) with the charges of illegal doping by Landis. Consider the following points:

1) His previous tests were clean.

2) Any kind of illegal doping on the night of his comeback would have zero affect on his performance the following day.

3) Why would anyone who knows they face mandatory testing take banned substances they know very well would be detected?

Me think the culprit in this scandal isn’t Landis, but someone or group who wanted to discredit him and bring shame to American cyclists. This is the only motive and explanation that makes any sense.

[TampaDude]

He didn't have to take it the night before for it to show up in his urine after he won the stage. However, I am also suspicious. If he had taken drugs I suspect that they would have been the unusual, hard-to-detect type.

Don't forget that Landis was tested after Stages 11, 12, 15, 19, and 20 in addition to Stage 17. The Stage 17 test is the only one to show that abnormal testosterone ratio. How could his testosterone ratio be normal the whole race up until Stage 17, jump up to 11:1 in the Stage 17 test, then magically drop back to normal two days later? Answer: IT CAN'T! The Stage 17 sample was tampered with!!!

Someone is trying to frame Floyd Landis. Knowing the French, this should come as no surprise, especially after the buffoonery they tried to pull on Lance Armstrong.

At this point, Landis would have to actually admit to cheating for me to believe he cheated to win the TDF.

[jess35]

No, the second test results aren't in. Landis said he requested the test and lab denies it. The ICU intervened and requested an analysis of the "B" sample. It should be in by the weekend.

[stinkerpot65]

In the A320 crash of 1988, the French switched the data recorder box to blame the pilot. The French are notoriously corrupt and you can certainly assume they would spike both of the samples.

[cpdiii]

That is correct. It can be adsorbed through the skin. The riders are frequently doused with water to keep cool. Spike the water with synthetic testosterone and he could come up positive. Also as pointed out the anabolic steroids do not work overnight. He would have gotten zero competitive advantage from dosing himself with steroids in the middle of the race. This whole damn thing stinks.

[nutmeg]

Tour de France ping! (for discussion)

Thanks for the heads up, alfa6.

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my Tour de France 2006 list.

[bwteim]

It does seem crazy to think it was deliberate. And, in the meantime, his name is dragged further into the mud.

[Paradox]

Maybe they used prop instead which wouldnt clear that fast."

I was thinking something along those lines, various testosterone esters that are absorbed differently. Perhaps he took a tesosterone that was a slower clearing version than he thought he was taking.

My Occams razor says it is most likely that he took something. Hate to say it, but thats whats most likely, I just dont see someone spiking something he drank or ate.

[Paradox]

Sure its physiological effects take weeks, but it has been written recently that there are some immediate psychological benefits. My original idea was that perhaps one of the esters he took was something that took a looong time to enter the bloodstream, like Testosterone Undecanoate. 2-3 weeks.. I dont know, I mean, this is either a case of monumental stupidity or.. something else..

[RepoGirl]

I hate to entertain an idea like that, but I also hate to entertain the idea of Floyd doping.

Somethings don't make sense -- with all the rigid testing, and all of the other riders being dumped before the tour started (like my hearthrob Basso, Hamilton and Kinsman Ullrich) it just doesn't make sense that Landis would slip through testing.

And doesn't something like testosterone take weeks to show up? It's not like one of those injected super 'roids.

My background is in body building (I'm new to endurance sports), so I don't really know what they'd use in cycling, since the objectives are different--you want aerobic capacity and speed, not mass.

I hate to say it, but I think its entirely possible he's being set-up. I think the French are still embarrassed after the Olympics debacle a few years ago, and can't stand the idea of another American (and one with a bum hip) beating their useless asses in their own sport.

For people who know more about juicing than I do, is it possible he could take something after stage 17 that would improve his performance so dramatically?

[gopwinsin04]

I wouldn't take 4 whiskeys from a French frog!

[Steve_Seattle]

For the conspiracy-minded, here are a few more items regarding Landis's 2006 TDF:

1. Just prior to his first time trial, one of the tires on his bike was founded to have a "cut." Landis noticed this just by happenstance, and a last-minute repair caused him to be a few seconds late at the starting line.

2. In another stage, his bike suffered another mechanical breakdown, with the steering, I think.

3. In yet another stage - during his big comeback run - he had yet a third problem with his bike - failed spokes, I believe it was - that caused him to trade wheels or bikes with a teammate.

4. Even though his bike had been ok'd by race officials in previous races, TDF officials made Landis change the configuration on his handlebars prior to the final time trial.

Then, on top of these potentially catastrophic bike failures and administrative nitpicking, he had the myserious and inexplicable positive test for excessive testosterone, discovered in a French lab and leaked to Le Equipe.

Was someone trying to sabotage Landis from the get-go? Yes, problems with bikes are common in the TDF, but Landis seemed to have an unusually large number of problems. And my pre-race reading of the modern history of the TDF made me realize just how strongly American success was resented in some European quarters.

[expatpat]

My guess is that it would be the sample that was doctored, after the stage. Why spike the drink etc. of a rider who was 8:30 out of the running prior to the finish of that stage?

[Steve_Seattle]

I agree it's unlikely his booze was spiked. If it happened, it was done in the lab.

[Paradox]

My guess is that it would be the sample that was doctored, after the stage.

Good point. I must say, my Occams Razor isn't quite sure how to cut here. Whats more likely, someone tampers with a sample, or Landis commits an act of utter stupidity?

[Steve_Seattle]

"Good point. I must say, my Occams Razor isn't quite sure how to cut here. Whats more likely, someone tampers with a sample, or Landis commits an act of utter stupidity?"

That is indeed the dilemma. Landis has a rep as a straight shooter and straight talker, so it would really surprise me if he did this. On the other hand, the Euros REALLY resent the American success in the TDF. On the other hand, Landis is much better liked in Europe than Armstrong ever was, so I go back and forth.

[RichardW]

I'm not much into conspiracies but this boils down to only two possibilies now. They are: 1) A genuine conspiracy (highly unlikley), or 2) Floyd lied.

It looks terminal from where I am. He'll be stripped of the championship and the Tour and bicycling in general will take a terrific hit from this scandal. Who can have faith in the integrity of the race if this is always in the background.

The only way to restore this is to impose a lifetime ban on any rider who dopes. No exceptions.

[jern]

no, he is a doper. the only thing that failed him was his masking agent

[jern]

Does anyone know how you take in testosterone if you are cheating? actually, you can use a cream, or they also make a patch that you put on your scrotum

[jern]

Very simple. For some reason his masking agent failed him in Stage 17. We are talking about a synthetic testerone. This reminds me of when everyone thought Tyler Hamilton wasn't a doper.

[Paradox]

So are you saying that he didn't neccessarily take a boost shot of T before the stage, but he might have forgotten or not taken the right amount of masking agent? Thats the third possibility I had not thought of, my Occams razor takes a detour...