Hacker fears 'UFO cover-up'-(ccused of hacking into Nasa and the US military)

bbc ^ | Friday, 5 May 2006 | na

[SunkenCiv]

And as Ike told his military assistant, he knew he had lost control of the whole UFO field and that it had been taken over by folks who were NOT 'good patriotic' folks.

The source of that quote? The name of the military assistant? The trouble with the study of UFOs / ETs (besides the anecdotal nature of reports) is that writers who build careers out of the subject have to continually top themselves.

[Quix]

Thankfully,

As I recally, that ref is a fairly easy one to track down. May take me 24-48 hours, though. I even think the guy may still be alive. It's ref'd at the DISCLOSURE PROJECT site of Greer's I think. The aid has been checked out and was in that role with Ike.

[SunkenCiv]

Steven Greer isn't a reliable source.

[Quix]

I wouldn't swear that everything he has ever said is 100% Gospel truth. And, I don't know if he's a puppet master stooge or whatever.

However, he comes across to me as very authentic and earnest. A successful surgeon, locally tops in his field, does not leave a successful practice to live essentially on a shoe string for such a thankless dangerous project without a lot of heart-felt dedication to such a project. I don't think he's a flake.

I do think he's deluded to think that all ET's are benign.

Regardless, have you seen the DVD of the testimonies on video? Many highly skilled, qualified and some high ranking military types are on video on record saying very solidly incredible things--essentially confirming much that has been in the literature for decades.

I don't think one can just wipe all that 400+ person testimony and pending testimony off the table with a quick casual biased swipe.

[SunkenCiv]

I don't think one can just wipe all that 400+ person testimony and pending testimony off the table with a quick casual biased swipe.

We can wipe all the pending testimony, because it doesn't exist yet. And we can wipe out anything that confirms incredible things that have been in the literature for decades with a quick or not so quick unbiased swipe when those who testify can't provide any verification for what they say.

[Quix]

You seem EXCEEDINGLY more willing to accept the error of believing that nothing is there when there is vs the error of believing that something is there when there isn't.

To me, that bias is not logical.

Lots of information is first detected at intuitive, nuance sorts of 'holographic' levels well before any kind of remotely solid proof is available.

As my expert boss said . . . it was the flakey, fringe organizations which first most correctly identified the sort of person Hitler was and what he would do.

Of course, our personal comfort zones and biases help/cause us to filter out all manner of data. Some such filtering is greatly successful and spares us pain and other costs. Some is greatly flawed and costs us greatly because of it's flawedness.

In any case, the UFO stuff will out at some point. Though, it's interesting that many in the field are claiming the last year or so that it will NEVER be outted because the powers that be holding the info are too afraid of being lynched for botching so much of the handling of the situation.

I still believe that the ET's etc. will force the issue at some point. And, that it will all figure in to the END TIMES stuff.

[SunkenCiv]

I saw this at the time of the broadcast, I'm sure others here did as well:

Desert Rat
Larry King Live
Quotes from transcript
Issue #20. December 19, 1994

DR. STEVEN GREER: "Let me say, though, that I do think that within the decade that it is likely that an undeniable event will transpire. There [is] the proliferation of video cameras and other technologies such that some of the events that have happened in the past decades, if they were to happen now in 1994, there is a higher and higher chance that this would result in undeniable evidence."

KING: "Are you encouraged that this administration would help?"

DR. GREER: "Yes."

KING: "Therefore you think that President Clinton does not now know what you may know."

DR. GREER: "I really shouldn't comment on that."

[Awkward pause.]

STANTON FRIEDMAN: "That's a mysterious comment."

DR. GREER: "What I think is that the current administration, the cabinet level people are probably not informed to the level that they should be. And to the extent that they have been informed, it is probably disinformation not information."

Greer's "I really shouldn't comment on that" triggered every b---s--- detector on Earth. And twelve years later, no undeniable event has appeared on video, although some fakes have. Also, Greer's claim (on the same show) that he and his associates had learned to guide in UFOs using high powered flashlights seems to have disappeared from radar.

[SunkenCiv]

I'd have very little surprise if the President (any President) of the United States disclosed that the gov't has extraterrestrial technology, but I'd be surprised if that event ever takes place. Such information would have probably destructive effects on society, and particularly on governance. By analogy, using a hypothetical example, if the President disclosed that a famous bandleader didn't really die in a plane crash, but had instead suffered a closed head injury during a bar brawl, and wound up dying sometime after his official death, in a military hospital in Ohio, the political ramifications would be disastrous. If the gov't would keep a secret seemingly that trivial, imagine the motivation for keeping something really significant. But I digress.

You seem EXCEEDINGLY more willing to accept the error of believing that nothing is there when there is vs the error of believing that something is there when there isn't.

To me, that bias is not logical.

Actually, your statement is not logical -- I reject Greer as a source, but he is obviously not a primary source by any stretch, and I regard him as a charlatan, the same way I regard Hoaxland as a charlatan. Greer is also not by any stretch the only source for UFO / alien anecdotes. I don't reject UFO sightings on a priori grounds -- that's the approach of the skepticultists.

The problem with the study of UFO sightings is, they are all studied second or third hand by people who were not there, and not uncommonly some time after the event. That leads to either tantalizing brevity (most sightings don't take all that long to describe, and took even less time to experience), or ponderous over-analysis in which the author's conclusions and assumptions are expanded for chapters. That's true on both sides of the aisle.

As my expert boss said . . . it was the flakey, fringe organizations which first most correctly identified the sort of person Hitler was and what he would do.

I don't regard Churchill as flakey or fringe. He got his information about Hitler from Hitler's own writings. Hitler made no secret of what he wanted to do. OTOH, the surrealist artist, Salvador Dali, regarded Hitler "as a masochist obsessed with the idee fixe of starting a war and losing it in a heroic style."

Of course, our personal comfort zones and biases help/cause us to filter out all manner of data. Some such filtering is greatly successful and spares us pain and other costs. Some is greatly flawed and costs us greatly because of it's flawedness.

I get a good laugh out of people who are certain they're in telepathic contact with galactic councils and alien civilizations and whatnot; also with purported abductees who claim the abductions have been going on since their childhoods; and of course with anyone who sez the aliens want us to stop using AquaNet, wearing fur, eating meat, whatever.

My comfort zone is, that the different waves of sightings -- in each of which stylistically similar vehicles seem to be involved -- are the result of short periods of visits by varioous different civilizations. They pop in, check things out, and move on, possibly never to return. There are plenty of places to investigate, the Earth being just one of those. And there are plenty of planets from which they can originate. I consider that to be a pretty minimal interpretation, and keeps Earth out of the center of the universe.

In any case, the UFO stuff will out at some point. Though, it's interesting that many in the field are claiming the last year or so that it will NEVER be outted because the powers that be holding the info are too afraid of being lynched for botching so much of the handling of the situation.

I've read that the Mayan astrologers used eclipses to maintain their hold on power -- they'd announce that something was going to eat the Sun, or eat the Moon, the exact date of the event, and also that they would use all their skills and spells to avert it and minimize the consequences. When the eclipse happened, right on schedule, and the Sun or Moon emerged unscathed, everyone would be grateful that such wise people were in charge.

SImilarly, the global warming demagogues claim that the ocean level will rise by (last I checked) a whopping 7 inches by 2100 AD. That's .07 inches a year, an amount that isn't really viably measured. And the same demagoges claim that most of the increase will happen closer to 2100 than to 2000. That's what's known as job security.

Something analogous is going on (and has been) in the UFO field, and for that matter, by Hoaxland. Got to keep the pressure on, because the government may otherwise never disclose what it has or knows. And we don't have any idea when the disclosure may happen, maybe never. Stay tuned, keep buying the books (and the story).

I still believe that the ET's etc. will force the issue at some point. And, that it will all figure in to the END TIMES stuff.

There have been a number of fringe sects which have claimed that the Earth would end on a specified date. The closer the date got, the more wound up they got, to the point that they'd give away whatever property they had left and headed for some spot where their safety (or afterlife) was assured. And the Earth is still here.

[SunkenCiv]

"varioous"

s/b

"various"

[Quix]

I respect your position. I think I understand it.

It's not mine.

My relative was on-site over the span of his Nev job, to see the craft on a daily basis. I have every reason to believe him and none, really, to disbelieve him.

Thanks for the dialogue and tone of it.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

to all, some links that may be useful or entertaining:

UFO Buffs Dis Area 51 Pix
By Patrick Huyghe
Special to SPACE.com
posted: 11:43 am ET
26 April 2000
http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/phenomena/area51_ufologists_000426.html

Area 51, Psychospy, Blackbirds, and UFOs:
http://www.nacs.uci.edu/indiv/lockhart/area51.html

Groom Lake photos:
http://www.desertsecrets.com/photohistory.html

A Trip to Groom Lake
By Dave Schmitz, Den Soltis
Formatted By Maverick 01-07-2000
Reformatted by Kidd 11/2000
[from "The Conspiracy Shack", although Dave Schmitz used to run Smitty's UFO page I think]
http://j_kidd.tripod.com/b/71.html