Linux vs. Windows Vista vs. Leopard

Technology News ^ | 1 May 2006 | Rob Enderle

[Psycho_Bunny]

Future products probably won't be running on anything that looks like today's Windows.

I pretty much stopped reading right there.  How far in the future?  Who is this goofball?

Any reasonably intelligent, patient person familiar with the workings of any one of the current, top graphical OSs can walk up to any of the others and figure it out pretty easily.  They all use keyboards, mice and monitors for interfacing and thus, will all continue in the same basic functionality for the foreseeable future.

Until there are serious, serious changes and advances in hardware interfacing, the GUIs for all the graphical OSs will share the same basic functionality and continue to essentially look like they do.

[ShadowAce]

Just curious--when do you last work in Linux?

[ShadowAce]

s/when do/when did/

[B Knotts]

Linux was too complicated for most users...in 1997.

It's much easier now.

You do have to be careful when buying hardware, although the hardware support is pretty good these days.

I can see an argument for home users to use Windows so they can just buy junk hardware and have it work half-way. But I can't see a reason to continue to use it for corporate desktops. It's just too expensive, both in licensing and upkeep.

[Tribune7]

Recall that Microsoft not only didn't initially target IBM as a competitor but partnered with it in order to gain faster entry into the market.

Thats' a really strange way of describing that history.

[ProudGOP]

Please add me to your tech list as well. I really enjoy the MS vs Linux vs Apple flame wars.

[ShadowAce]

I really enjoy the MS vs Linux vs Apple flame wars.

LOL! That wasn't actually the purpose of this list. :)

You've been added. Welcome Aboard!

[Crusher138]

A few years back I set up a Linux web server at work. Generally no problem. Very stable. Worked well.

Last year we decided to try some Linux systems at work. We had launched a web based version of our internal tracking system and figured we could save some bucks by going open source. Used Red Hat Linux and set up a few systems as dual boot. These were fairly new (none more than two years old) Windows machines. We put Linux on a separate, second, hard drive. On all four machines there was some sort of issue. CD-ROM drives may or may not be recognized and, if they were, they may or may not write to disk. Some printers worked with no issues, some seemed to work, but had problems with printing some reports, some refused to work at all. Video support was spotty. After a lot of research, downloads, and forum visits we were able to solve +90% of the problems, but it was hardly the plug and play experience we usually have with our Windows and Apple workstations. I will say that once up, the systems worked well and did not crash.

[ShadowAce]

Hmm Interesting. What version of Red Hat did you use? I ask because while installing Fedora on my laptop, I have experienced none of those issues. I have two printers defined--one at work attached to a Windows machine over a Novell network, and one at home attached to a Win98 machine. Both work fine with no extra drivers.

My laptop uses a M10 ATI Radeon 9600 and I have had zero issues. I also have a DVDRW/CDRW drive and no issues.

I've needed no extra drivers once I installed the OS.

I'm just wondering if you used an older version of Redhat, rather than the curent one (at the time you installed it).

[Echo Talon]

1. If you are a total novice (and cost is not a major factor) and just want to do specific tasks, i.e. e-mail, music, Internet, etc., Apple is the way to go. More expensive initially, but less likely to cause future headaches.

I disagree a total novice will think he is invincible,
stat them off with WinXP and a good security suite, teach them early.

[Crusher138]

It was prior to the latest release (Fedora 5) and I remember that one of our issues was that the version we had just bought on disk had already been updated and we had to do some initial downloading to bring it up to date. I was the project manager and was overseeing the employees doing the installs. All were experienced computer users, but none were professional techs. It was important to us to see how easy it was to install, so the users handled the install. These guys had worked with Macs and Windows machines and were pretty comfortable with installing software and hardware. Like I said, most of the install went well, but each machine had at least one issue. These computers were from Dell, Compaq, and Gateway. I suspect that proprietary hardware may have been to blame in most cases, but it was still an issue.

I would not feel comfortable recommending Linux to someone buying their first computer. Such a user would be more comfortable, in my opinion, with a Mac or Wintel.

[Citizen Tom Paine]

I am an OLD computer user. Based on my experience, motivates me were the killer applications at the time. That is what moved me from the Apple II+ to the severely limited early PCs.

At this time and place, I see no killer applications on any platform. I am using Macs now because of the unsolved virus problems with MS et al.

Perhaps the next really killer application will be a combination of everything that the kids want and love.

A word in passing: I was told by knowledgeable people that when your code got around 90.000 to 100,000 lines that no one could keep track of it all (including all of the constants). I understand that MS is now pushing 500,000+ lines of code in their applications. This implies to me that no one knows what is happening in it.IMHO

[ShadowAce]

...he version we had just bought on disk had already been updated and we had to do some initial downloading to bring it up to date.

That's pretty typical. Even Windows has its patches that users should DL before using.

I suspect that proprietary hardware may have been to blame in most cases, but it was still an issue.

I suspect that as well from your description. I haven't been very happy with any of those brands. In fact, I've stayed away from Compaq since the day I couldn't re-install Windows from its own recovery disk due to hardware issues.

Based on commodity hardware, though, Red Hat (and Fedora) installs pretty much automatically. I've found that it's usually easier to install RH and Fedora than it is to install Windows.

[Crusher138]

Good point. I have clients, however, who are very much in the mind that a computer should be like a toaster. It should do a few things really well, it should be easy to use, and they don't care how it does it. That would be a classic Apple customer.

Other clients more correctly think of the computer like a car. While they don't exactly know how it works, they realize there is maintenance involved and a general understanding of its operation will make for a better experience. These guys can use either Macs or Windows, but Windows is generally preferred.

Taking the car analogy further, a Linux user is a guy who likes to get under the hood and add after-market parts. Not a bad thing, but not everyone is like that.

[Echo Talon]

you should give Mepis 6.0 beta2 a try it should be out tomorrow. distrowatch.com, I'm using beta1 right and its really cool and easy and I'm a Linux noobie(sort of). I tried Linux a few years ago(RedHat and Mandrake) and gave it up because it was to hard, but it has improved a lot. Mepis is really nice its a live CD so you can test it out without installing it on your hard drive, if you like it, it has a very easy program to install and give you a bootloader to dual boot windows or Linux. I was skeptical until I tried it and played with it for awhile.

[Crusher138]

I would guess that if you were building a computer from scratch and had a list of Linux compatible hardware, it would be a much smoother install. Still, there are issues with popular hardware, cameras and MP3 players come to mind, that would frustrate a novice after the initial installation.

The Linux community does seems to be addressing these issues, but the general hardware manufacturers seem to be slow in providing Linux drivers, if they provide them at all.

[Crusher138]

I would guess that if you were building a computer from scratch and had a list of Linux compatible hardware, it would be a much smoother install. Still, there are issues with popular hardware, cameras and MP3 players come to mind, that would frustrate a novice after the initial installation.

The Linux community does seems to be addressing these issues, but the general hardware manufacturers seem to be slow in providing Linux drivers, if they provide them at all.

[HAL9000]

Enderle is considered the most uninformed pundit in the business. Last year, he wrote that Microsoft was the original designer of the Mac.

No one seems to talk much about Apple Leopard, the next version of the Mac OS. This is primarily because Apple, unlike Microsoft, is not talking about this next generation platform publicly. Based on comments by Apple chief Steve Jobs it was slated to roll out about the same time as Vista originally was, but if what I'm reading is right, it too has run into problems and won't show up until late 2007. This OS was largely modeled after what Vista was going to be.

Enderle lies without compunction. There are no reports that Leopard has run into trouble. As usual, Apple will demonstrate some of Leopard's features at the WWDC developer's conference this summer. Apple is in a strong position to release Leopard when the market conditions are ideal - which will be just before Vista is released.

If Apple can't at least double its small share during this unique event it should abandon the Mac OS as a dead end, because this kind of opportunity will never come again.

Apple will continue to focus on quality and profitability. Marketshare is a secondary consideration, but Apple has increased about one percent over the last year, and continues to have about ten times more users than Linux.

Apple will not abandon the Mac OS X platform. Linux will not abandon Linux. Microsoft has already abandoned Longhorn once.

[VeniVidiVici]

I would not feel comfortable recommending Linux to someone buying their first computer. Such a user would be more comfortable, in my opinion, with a Mac or Wintel.

Nor would I. Installing some programs and their patches on Linux is a major hassle.

[MainFrame65]

Seamonkey is worthless to me without a fully functional calendar. I just migrated to Mozilla App Suite version 1.7.13 (end of life) and installed the version of the calendar at the link below, and it seems to be OK so far.

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/xpi/windows/calendar_windows_20050111.xpi